"Same day" lounge access on previous day but within 24 hours
Aug 29, 2009, 5:24 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 296
"Same day" lounge access on previous day but within 24 hours
According to the *A lounge access policy at http://www.staralliance.com/en/trave...ss-policy.html, same day travel is defined as "[e]ligible travel occurring within 24 hours of the first eligible scheduled departure time."
That's a strange definition. Consider the case of a *G member with a roundtrip flight. Is the return trip ineligible because it occurs 2 weeks after the outbound, since the outbound is the first eligible flight? Clearly not.
Let's substitute the definition into the rule for int'l C lounge access. "Customer must present a boarding card for [travel occurring within 24 hours of the first eligible scheduled departure time] in international Business Class on a Star Alliance member carrier flight." This seems to want to say that non-*Gs can access the C lounge within 24 hours of a C flight even if their later flights are in Y, but that idea is shot down by the next rule that limits C lounge access to airports from which you're departing in C.
OK, now consider the connecting itinerary LAX-SIN-PEK, where LAX-SIN departs at 8am Singapore time on the 1st and SIN-PEK departs at 9am Singapore time on the 2nd. According to the rules, SIN-PEK is ineligible for lounge access, even if flown in first, because it occurs 24 hours after the first eligible departure.
(This is another version of the scenario I presented above.) So, this definition is BIZARRE.
But my real question is about the "24 hours" part of the definition. If I arrive in, say, ICN at 4pm and have a flight the next day at 12noon, can I access the lounge on both days? Assume I can get through transfer security just fine. In practice, I would be (and have been) denied at ICN. (I have been allowed at LHR, SIN, BKK, PEK, and all RCCs.)
The rules really don't answer this question. By one crazy reading, if I just present a boarding pass, even if it's for 48 or 72 hours out (assuming you can get it printed), I should be allowed in. That's because the requirement is to present a boarding pass for same day travel, and "same day travel" is defined as "travel occurring within 24 hours of the first eligible scheduled departure time." Say I only had one flight. Then the first eligible scheduled departure time would be that flight, and so that flight's boarding pass would satisfy the rules, since it occurs within 24 hours of itself (by definition!). The only constraint here is to present ANY boarding pass, since its eligibility depends on whether it is within 24 hours of itself! If you could get a boarding pass printed 10 days in advance and get through security somehow, then it'd be valid for lounge access! (Under this interpretation.)
OK, let's look at the *G access policy. The important part states, "Customer must also present a boarding card for a same day Star Alliance member carrier flight departing from the local airport." This doesn't use the term "same day travel," so can we assume that the definition of "same day travel" also applies to the usage of just the phrase "same day" here? If not, then problem solved: access simply depends on the calendar date. If they did intend "same day" to be defined by the definition for "same day travel," why didn't they just use "same day travel"? Clearly, they changed the phrasing between the F/C lounge access rules and the same for *G.
One likely reason for the change was that they wanted F/C to give lounge access for connecting flights in Y by non-*Gs, but as shown earlier, they later changed their minds on that, but left in the old language. Since I can't find any meaningful differences in structure between the F/C rules and the *G rules, I'm going to assume that the usage of "same day" and not the full "same day travel" was unintentional.
So, I'm still completely confused. The rules make no sense, and I would LOVE to be corrected on this and told what I'm missing.
My hunch is that the inclusion of "24 hours" means they intended to allow lounge access up to 24 hours before an eligible flight. And I believe that showing a lounge supervisor the "24 hours" clause would be a strong (if not legally sound) case that I should be allowed access on the calendar day before my flight if within 24 hours of it. I'll report back on how it goes.
Anyone, particularly lawyers, have any better interpretations of this lounge access policy? Anyone have experiences with getting access the day before?
That's a strange definition. Consider the case of a *G member with a roundtrip flight. Is the return trip ineligible because it occurs 2 weeks after the outbound, since the outbound is the first eligible flight? Clearly not.
Let's substitute the definition into the rule for int'l C lounge access. "Customer must present a boarding card for [travel occurring within 24 hours of the first eligible scheduled departure time] in international Business Class on a Star Alliance member carrier flight." This seems to want to say that non-*Gs can access the C lounge within 24 hours of a C flight even if their later flights are in Y, but that idea is shot down by the next rule that limits C lounge access to airports from which you're departing in C.
OK, now consider the connecting itinerary LAX-SIN-PEK, where LAX-SIN departs at 8am Singapore time on the 1st and SIN-PEK departs at 9am Singapore time on the 2nd. According to the rules, SIN-PEK is ineligible for lounge access, even if flown in first, because it occurs 24 hours after the first eligible departure.
(This is another version of the scenario I presented above.) So, this definition is BIZARRE.But my real question is about the "24 hours" part of the definition. If I arrive in, say, ICN at 4pm and have a flight the next day at 12noon, can I access the lounge on both days? Assume I can get through transfer security just fine. In practice, I would be (and have been) denied at ICN. (I have been allowed at LHR, SIN, BKK, PEK, and all RCCs.)
The rules really don't answer this question. By one crazy reading, if I just present a boarding pass, even if it's for 48 or 72 hours out (assuming you can get it printed), I should be allowed in. That's because the requirement is to present a boarding pass for same day travel, and "same day travel" is defined as "travel occurring within 24 hours of the first eligible scheduled departure time." Say I only had one flight. Then the first eligible scheduled departure time would be that flight, and so that flight's boarding pass would satisfy the rules, since it occurs within 24 hours of itself (by definition!). The only constraint here is to present ANY boarding pass, since its eligibility depends on whether it is within 24 hours of itself! If you could get a boarding pass printed 10 days in advance and get through security somehow, then it'd be valid for lounge access! (Under this interpretation.)
OK, let's look at the *G access policy. The important part states, "Customer must also present a boarding card for a same day Star Alliance member carrier flight departing from the local airport." This doesn't use the term "same day travel," so can we assume that the definition of "same day travel" also applies to the usage of just the phrase "same day" here? If not, then problem solved: access simply depends on the calendar date. If they did intend "same day" to be defined by the definition for "same day travel," why didn't they just use "same day travel"? Clearly, they changed the phrasing between the F/C lounge access rules and the same for *G.
One likely reason for the change was that they wanted F/C to give lounge access for connecting flights in Y by non-*Gs, but as shown earlier, they later changed their minds on that, but left in the old language. Since I can't find any meaningful differences in structure between the F/C rules and the *G rules, I'm going to assume that the usage of "same day" and not the full "same day travel" was unintentional.
So, I'm still completely confused. The rules make no sense, and I would LOVE to be corrected on this and told what I'm missing.
My hunch is that the inclusion of "24 hours" means they intended to allow lounge access up to 24 hours before an eligible flight. And I believe that showing a lounge supervisor the "24 hours" clause would be a strong (if not legally sound) case that I should be allowed access on the calendar day before my flight if within 24 hours of it. I'll report back on how it goes.
Anyone, particularly lawyers, have any better interpretations of this lounge access policy? Anyone have experiences with getting access the day before?
Aug 30, 2009, 5:27 am
#2
Join Date: May 2004
Location: near FRA
Programs: UA 1K 2MM (*G)
Posts: 1,459
In some lounges you are at the mercy of the matrons, with or without a printout of the rules in your hand or even a lawyer in tow.
In such a case, get over it or not.
I wonder how this thread will develop...
F.R.
Aug 30, 2009, 8:25 am
#4
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
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Posts: 296
Sorry. My previous post was too long. 1) Can anyone else make sense of the rules? 2) What is the policy on day-before lounge access within 24 hours of the flight? (The reason I asked for a lawyer's interpretation is because I'm curious how the policy should be interpreted, not because I want to sue anyone, etc.)
Aug 30, 2009, 9:20 am
#5
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Sorry. My previous post was too long. 1) Can anyone else make sense of the rules? 2) What is the policy on day-before lounge access within 24 hours of the flight? (The reason I asked for a lawyer's interpretation is because I'm curious how the policy should be interpreted, not because I want to sue anyone, etc.)
So as long as you are flying an international itinerary with connections you ought to be granted access; Anyway good sense prevails as when departing LAX/SFO to AusNZ, passenger arrives D+2 and yet has access, within the 24 hour rule.
Cheers
Aug 30, 2009, 9:22 am
#6
Join Date: Jul 2008
Programs: *A Gold
Posts: 123
Sorry. My previous post was too long. 1) Can anyone else make sense of the rules? 2) What is the policy on day-before lounge access within 24 hours of the flight? (The reason I asked for a lawyer's interpretation is because I'm curious how the policy should be interpreted, not because I want to sue anyone, etc.)
S.
Aug 30, 2009, 9:51 am
#7
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 296
The 24 hour rule is stated as some international flights depart in the evening and onward domestic connections occur the day after, still granting access, thus coiuld not be access on day of departure only.
So as long as you are flying an international itinerary with connections you ought to be granted access; Anyway good sense prevails as when departing LAX/SFO to AusNZ, passenger arrives D+2 and yet has access, within the 24 hour rule.
So as long as you are flying an international itinerary with connections you ought to be granted access; Anyway good sense prevails as when departing LAX/SFO to AusNZ, passenger arrives D+2 and yet has access, within the 24 hour rule.
Maybe the answer is just that the policy is poorly written (or poorly translated from German?).
Sep 3, 2009, 5:06 am
#11
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Good news: I was just admitted to the Asiana C lounge at ICN the day before my flight. They wouldn't print my boarding pass, and they initially told me that I couldn't access the lounge today. But I had printed out the access rules from the site and had the *A employee handbook on my computer, and I showed them the "24-hour" clause. They accepted it after about 15-20 minutes of phone calls to who-knows-who, and phoned the lounge attendant to warn her of my arrival. This is the same lounge that denied me access in the same situation last week, but I am very happy with how everything worked out this time.
Doesn't answer any questions about why the wording is so bizarre, though.
Doesn't answer any questions about why the wording is so bizarre, though.
Sep 3, 2009, 6:01 pm
#12
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About 15 minutes after the post above, the lounge attendant came over and told me that only this time would I be admitted the day before. I thanked her for letting me in but said that I was just abiding by *A policy in entering the lounge, not asking for special treatment. She ran back to the desk, and when I went to find her 10 minutes later she was reviewing a printout of the *A lounge rules. (It was different from the URL posted above and it was not the PDF, but it was printed from some *A site and was for 2009.) She pointed to where it said "same day," but then I showed her where her printout defined "same-day travel" to mean within 24 hours, and she got really embarrassed and motioned me back into the lounge.
She didn't speak English too well, and I don't speak Korean at all, so communication was an issue. But I don't get the feeling that she was willing to concede this point even though her printout did state "within 24 hours." Still, I feel certain that I could enter *A lounges in the future by referring to the rules, even if each time would be a "one-time exception." Thus this matter is settled in practice.
She didn't speak English too well, and I don't speak Korean at all, so communication was an issue. But I don't get the feeling that she was willing to concede this point even though her printout did state "within 24 hours." Still, I feel certain that I could enter *A lounges in the future by referring to the rules, even if each time would be a "one-time exception." Thus this matter is settled in practice.
Nov 8, 2010, 2:26 pm
#13
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lounge access
Non-status pax
SFO-ICN in UA C
connecting
ICN-PVG in OZ Y
Lounge access at ICN?
PVG-ICN in OZ Y
connecting
ICN-SFO in UA C
Lounge access at PVG?
I am just a bit confused. Anyone knowledgeable?
SFO-ICN in UA C
connecting
ICN-PVG in OZ Y
Lounge access at ICN?
PVG-ICN in OZ Y
connecting
ICN-SFO in UA C
Lounge access at PVG?
I am just a bit confused. Anyone knowledgeable?
Nov 8, 2010, 10:00 pm
#14
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Nov 9, 2010, 6:46 am
#15
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If lounge access is only granted for same day of travel, theoretically, if the departure time of your flight on your BP shows 00.05 and I want to get in the lounge at 2340 (25 minutes before the flight), will the lounge dragon refuse to let me in?