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Old May 13, 2008 | 4:07 am
  #1  
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Help with *A FFP

Before I get shouted down, I have searched, but with recent cc changes, there was no clear answer.

I am based in Australia - no we no longer have a *A carrier (still a sore point even after all these years).

I do belong to NZ Airpoints (a few hundred air $ but they are starting to expire), SQ Krisflyer (nil balance), TGROP (nil balance).

I have an AUS Amex with which I can now drop 1:1 SQ, 4:3 TG, nil NZ.

I have been using EK for travel btw QLD and NZ as their F class is only fractionally more than NZ J class fares (plus 'free' cars either end), so very little change of NZ earn.

Should I drop mileage into SQ or TG?

I am about to do a *A RTW in J.
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Old May 13, 2008 | 7:30 am
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Originally Posted by MetroAir
I am about to do a *A RTW in J.
Then LH or BD is the way to go IMHO. Difficult to use your credit card points (other than via SPG) but LH and BD have great earn/burn ratio for premium cabins.
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Old May 13, 2008 | 4:21 pm
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DownUnderFlyers's advice in respect to LH or BD is sound advice when it comes to premium travel in *A

Personally, I would plan where you want to go and on what airline, then find out the miles that you would earn on the respective programs.

Myself, I would lean slightly to BD. Your RTW in J will get you to within touching distance of *G while on LH it will get you pretty much nothing of worth, status wise.

Also when you hit 55k miles in a status year with BD, everything over 55k earns double, so those 200% (+25% bonus for being Silver or Gold) miles that you are getting in J, now becomes 425% miles.

Lastly, BD will also let you transfer your AMEX points.

On the burning side, BD also offers some good deals in premium travel when you redeem with cash & miles.

The one caveat with BD, is that they are very likely to be taken over by LH (Posts in the BMI Forum go into more details on this). On the plus side, if you are Gold with BD when LH take them over, you are likely (nothings guaranteed!) to get a similar (Senator) status in Lufthansas M&M programs that will actually last for 2 years.
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Old May 13, 2008 | 4:37 pm
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Originally Posted by CrackAddick
Your RTW in J will get you to within touching distance of *G while on LH it will get you pretty much nothing of worth, status wise.
Depends on the itinerary. It is quite possible to qualify for SEN (*G) on a CRWSTARx in business class, although perhaps no longer on the 29k version (now only 16 segments are allowed).
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Old May 13, 2008 | 9:09 pm
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I don't think I can transfer Aus Amex points into LH or BD.

My calcs of my itinerary seem to give me 44k points on LH and 50k points on BD, although I did not factor in the BD Silver bonus, so it could be enough to get to gold..

I can make 35k points with SQ and drop Amex points into it 1:1. (I have about 250k Amex points).

My travel is always J or F so lounges are always there anyhow.

Hmmmmm....... this all gets tricky
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Old May 14, 2008 | 1:35 am
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Originally Posted by MetroAir
My calcs of my itinerary seem to give me 44k points on LH and 50k points on BD, although I did not factor in the BD Silver bonus, so it could be enough to get to gold..
The BD 25% status bonus only applies to destination miles, not to status miles, so it won't give you a boost in earning status.
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Old May 14, 2008 | 1:40 am
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Originally Posted by Sea-Wolf
The BD 25% status bonus only applies to destination miles, not to status miles, so it won't give you a boost in earning status.
Thanks for that clarification, it just gets harder....

Despite the earn ratio on LH and BD, I am sort of leaning towards SQ for the Amex drop.

What sort of drop Amex to SPG to BD is there? I didn't notice anything on the BD site.

I have joined the BD program anyway and got 3k status and destination points as a start off...
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Old May 14, 2008 | 5:21 am
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Originally Posted by MetroAir
Thanks for that clarification, it just gets harder....

Despite the earn ratio on LH and BD, I am sort of leaning towards SQ for the Amex drop.

What sort of drop Amex to SPG to BD is there? I didn't notice anything on the BD site.

I have joined the BD program anyway and got 3k status and destination points as a start off...
44k Miles on LH for a RTW in C is very low. As Kiwi said, you can almost get to 100k with this if you optimize.
In terms of credit card transfer: You can transfer 1000 Amex points to 330 SPG points. and 20,000 SPG points will give you 25,000 LH miles. AFAIK no transfer to BD.
So in order to get 50,000 LH miles on credit card you need roughly 120k Amex points so a lot worse than SQ. But earning in premium cabins is much better on LH than SQ.
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Old May 14, 2008 | 2:00 pm
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44k for LH and 50k on BD doesn't sound right. Even an extremely basic RTW (eg LHR-HKG-AKL-LAX-LHR) should earn more than 44k, and once you have FTL (*S) status the 25% bonus (on eligible airlines only) counts for status as well as redeemable miles.

Perhaps you could post your itinerary so we can check your calcs?
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Old May 14, 2008 | 2:28 pm
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Thanks KiwiFlyer, happy to post it up.

SYD-BKK TG
BKK-VTE TG
VTE-BKK TG
BKK-FRA LH
FRA-ATH LH
ATH-FRA LH
FRA-LAX LH
LAX-SYD UA

All in J (uggg on the last sector, I know)
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Old May 14, 2008 | 4:51 pm
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According to GCM, flown distance is 26454 miles. Thus will get at least 52k miles on M&M. Will do better than that though as BKK-VTE & VTE-BKK earns minimum miles of 1000, while FRA-ATH & ATH-FRA earns 2000 fixed mileage (2500 if you have status but if starting from scratch you don't reach FTL until LAX). Then LAX-SYD earns 25% bonus as UA is an airline with status bonus for M&M.

I make that just shy of 55k status and redeemable miles on M&M. This is FTL (*S) status until Feb 2011 assuming your trip is completed by 31 Dec 2008 (M&M works off calendar years).

You also still have 2549 miles in hand. Adding a few short intra-europe sectors will boost the M&M earning considerably.

BD earn should be a little less than LH as also 200% miles but not as generous for the intra-europe, and the status bonus works differently. Result is BD*S for about one year.

Compare this with SQ. 125% earning with no minimums thus 33k miles earnt. This is Silver Elite (*S) status until about 13 months after the end of your trip.

Last edited by Kiwi Flyer; May 14, 2008 at 4:56 pm
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Old May 14, 2008 | 5:15 pm
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Originally Posted by MetroAir
Thanks KiwiFlyer, happy to post it up.

SYD-BKK TG
BKK-VTE TG
VTE-BKK TG
BKK-FRA LH
FRA-ATH LH
ATH-FRA LH
FRA-LAX LH
LAX-SYD UA

All in J (uggg on the last sector, I know)
Hi MetroAir, I approached it from a different angle, and it has worked for me. I soon figured out that most of my travel was going to be on TG as the business is in Thailand, and that it was useless having points with an European carrier, regardless of how many, if using them at short notice at airports on SQ and TG was going to be difficult. During 2008 and for the early part of 2009, it is/will be nearly impossible to get an award flight with TG, but because of my frequency of travel and status, I am looked after. Now once a year TG give me a return trip upgrade, which I use on one of the two long hauls per year. The second treat is on my birthday month, they allow us to purchase a return trip for half points. Both of these benefits are worth more to Australians than anyone else as the MEL-BKK is long haul in itself and when you add a BKK-CDG to the ticket, a free upgrade from economy to business ( this alone is worth $thousands to me) and a 50% award fare are very substantial (I look foward to this trip each year). I have chosen to take fewer initial points for a greater yearly gain. As I say it works a treat for me, because my travel is from both ends of the TG network. I have four FFP, with status in two, and the best for me, meaning who looks after me the most, is hands down, it's Thai. regards bkkrop
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Old May 14, 2008 | 6:05 pm
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BKKROP makes some very good points about TG's ROP program. If you fly TG a lot their program can be very good if you can use their birthday award and their free r/t upgrade. Those two bonuses can be quite valuable as BKKROP mentioned and for some travelers can far outweigh the extra miles they get with BD's or LH's FFPs. I fly a lot, with TG being my preferred carrier and bank most of my miles with BD's program. But I always put aside the 50K needed to renew my ROP and get my bonuses with them. One further advantage of TG's ROP is that they really look after their gold customers in getting you onto flights that you otherwise wouldn't stand a chance. For some that alone is a very valuable perk. Splitting my miles between ROP and BD has worked very well for me, but only because I fly TG a lot. If I never flew TG then I don't think it would be a very good program for me.
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Old May 14, 2008 | 6:38 pm
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Originally Posted by A_Lee
One further advantage of TG's ROP is that they really look after their gold customers in getting you onto flights that you otherwise wouldn't stand a chance. For some that alone is a very valuable perk. Splitting my miles between ROP and BD has worked very well for me, but only because I fly TG a lot. If I never flew TG then I don't think it would be a very good program for me.
Thanks A_Lee, so often I write and say this program works for me (more precisely, I make it work for me), and whilst I never say it is the best available, regardless I am shot down in flames. I totally agree with you. When you want to get to or from anywhere in Asia, I can be nearly 100% sure TG will find me a seat, it's a reassuring feeling to have that, unlike most others in the lounge at the time, you will get to where you were heading. If I never or only rarely used TG, like you, I would go elsewhere. regards bkkrop
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Old May 14, 2008 | 6:43 pm
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Thanks everyone, all good points and now I just have to work out what is going to be good for me.

My primary concern is winding up with a pile of points in a program I can't really easily add to and therefore use (a bit like the NZ program since you can't drop Amex into it).

Oh well, I have until 17/7 to decide what to do.
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