Help with CRTWSTAR question
 

I am currently travellling on a CRTWSTAR1 that I want to upgrade tomorrow but I need confirmation that this is possible:

My current route:
GOT-FRA-SIN-KUL // BKK-SIN-CGK-SIN-LAX-LAS-SFO // LAX-JFK-FRA-ARN

I will fly the LAX-JFK-FRA tomorrow and my goal is to upgrade the CRTWSTAR1 to a CRTWSTAR3 with 39.000 miles and this route (after FRA):
FRA-CPH-ZRH-DAR // CPT-ZRH-SVO-ARN

My questions are:

1. Confirm that I can upgrade to CRTWSTAR3 at FRA - and where?
2. Is the route valid (can I fly to Africa/DAR after staying in CPH)
3. Great Circle mapper lists this as 38k miles but this does not count overland, is the route over 39k?
4. Anyone have a United SWU that I can use tomorrow on LAX-JFK? :)

Quick advice much appreciated!

Route on Great Circle Mapper

I was all set to say that you couldn't fly to Africa after returning to Europe, but I can't find anything in the rules that would prohibit it. Europe and Africa are both in Area 2, and the only restrictions that I can find concern crossings between areas, not within them (except of course for certain stopover and transfer limits).

The only Star carriers flying to Africa from a non-european airport are SQ SIN-JNB afaik. Thats probably why they allow it. I will know for certain on thursday :)

I think you have to put this into the GCM as ...KUL-BKK..., ...SFO-LAX... and ...DAR-CPT.... Unfortunately, that puts you over 41 000 miles.

cheers,

Henry

I agree that the GCM distance comes to 41K miles. I understand that the land segments are ok with RWSTAR routes, but the land segment mileage still must be included as if you had flown the route between the two points. I found this:

Surface sector - the last point of arrival & the first point of departure together count as 1 stopover.
Mileage for surface sectors must be included in the MPM calculation.
If a surface sector attracts more than 1 TPM, the lower applies

source: http://www.globaltravel.com.sg/promo...wef25nov05.php

Surface segments need to be included in the mileage calculation. No backtracking between continents is a one world RTW rule (and lots of other RTW products). For *RWSTAR* there is only one trans-atlantic, one trans-pacific and one europe/africa to asia/australia-south pacific crossing - but within this can do up down back sideways whatever. Of course if you do to many longhauls quickly run into overall mileage limit.

Thanks all!

I will buy a separate SAA ticket DAR-CPT return (outside the RTW) which gives me 37.681 miles including the surface sectors.

One more question:

- Am I allowed to pass through ARN on my RTW even though the itineary originated in Sweden?

- Any suggestions what to do with the remaining 1.319 miles? :)

Alas, no. Rule 9 (A): 'Not more than...one international arrival is permitted in the country of origin...' In other words, once you're back, you're back. (There are a few exceptions: USA, Canada and Thailand.) You could go from ARN back to GOT, I think.

cheers,

Henry

Ok, thats what I suspected. I will stick to my CPH leg then and get a separate ticket to ARN.

You have 3 more sectors to play with. So could do a round trip to almost anywhere in scandanavia & baltics, germany, benelux, uk, poland, czech, slovakia, austria, switzerland.

Does anyone know if this rule has been changed (very) recently ?.

I am just about to ticket a CRTWSTAR2 going BKK-SIN-SYDxMEL-BKK-SIN-MAN etc and the people I am buying the ticket from say they think the previous rule allowing another visit to BKK may have changed.

I must it's the first I've heard and it will be a pain if it has changed.

It's not changed - but I think they have their 2 internationals and start point rules confused. Your itinerary listed above is not legal.
You are permitted 2 International departures and 2 International arrivals per RTW itinerary that starts in Thailand, as it always has been. However, you cannot transit your starting point at any time for any itinerary, as it has always been. If BKK is your start point you cannot go to or through BKK again on the itinerary as an en-route point - doing so means your journey has ended.

To get around it, just start/ticket the journey from say CNX or HKT & transit at BKK on the way to the first SIN visit. That way you will still get your 2 Intnat'l departures from Thailand and the 2 Intnat'l arrivals, but you won't be going back through your start point again when you revisit BKK later. Easy enough to get a cheap BKK-HKT/CNX flight to start the RTW from one of those. You must start and end your RTW in the same country, but it's legal to finish it at a different point in the same country than what your start point was, so there's no problem in ending the RTW at BKK when it started at CNX/HKT.

I know you know your stuff on these Al, but I'm not sure that's right. It may be different for a stopover in BKK, which is what I want to do, but it didn't stop you doing a transfer. For a start I did an ex-BKK CRTWSTAR last year and I went back in and out of BKK on it !!!.

I am looking at the last copy of the rules I got and it says:

TRANSFERS

UNLIMITED TRANSFERS PERMITTED.
-----
NO MORE THAN THREE TRANSFERS PERMITTED AT ANY ONE CITY.
----
IN THE COUNTRY OF ORIGIN NOT MORE THAN TWO DOMESTIC TRANSFERS PER DIRECTION PERMITTED AND NOT MORE THAN ONE INTERNATIONAL ARRIVAL PERMITTED.

EXCEPTION -

WHEN TRAVEL ORIGINATES IN USA/CANADA/THAILAND
NOT MORE THAN THREE DOMESTIC TRANSFERS PER DIRECTION PERMITTED IN THE COUNTRY OF ORIGIN.
NOT MORE THAN TWO INTERNATIONAL DEPARTURES AND NOT MORE THAN TWO INTERNATIONAL ARRIVALS PERMITTED IN THE COUNTRY OF ORIGIN.

That's my bolding obviously and it says nothing about not being able to transit to your starting point.

The reason I posted originally is I am buying from the same people I got the ticket last year where I went back through BKK, and their exact words were 'I need to check if you travel from BKK you can return to BKK. I know there was an exception for Thailand in the past for passengers travelling from Thailand, but the rule has changed'.

Will let you know what they say.

The rule regarding transferring at origin points is in the very first paragraphs under application & carriers.

It's a bit of confusing IATA speak (like a lot of fares) but basically they're saying that while it's okay to go beyond your start point or to go further than a true round the world you can't actually go through your start point.
Or at least that's how we were advised that's how it went when I was on the Star desk at AN. I personally wouldn't ever allow a ticket with a routing like that to be issued as per the application paragraph rule, but if you can get it done, then go for it! :)

You can interpret this part differently though.

If you pass through your point of origin again before you really travel around the world (which is another requirement for a valid itinerary), you might be fine. Only once you are coming back after you completed your round the world travel you definitely cannot go through your point of origin again.

Tricky...