Folks:

We're having an ongoing conversation in the UA forum about post-departure changes to *A award tickets when issued on carriers other than your FFP.

I was wondering if those of you with experience in other FFP programs (not UAs) could provide us with information about what various *A programs allow you to do with this situation:

Material changes to *A award tickets (COS, destinations, routings, etc.) after ticketing and after departure. Please exclude date/time changes (as these are generally allowed, afaik). Please also exclude changes to awards that are wholly on your own FFPs airline (ie. M&M ticket booked solely on LH).

Please don't relate your personal experience of getting certain changes made outside the scope of the program's rules. The focus is on what the rules actually say.

If we find that a bunch of partners allow changes, we may be able to persuade UA to do the same.

Thanks so much!

<G>

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By way of background: UA doesn't allow any changes on *A tickets once they have been issued and once you depart - except for time/date changes. You can read the most recent thread (on class of service issues) here:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showt...=320517&page=1

The rules for LH Miles and More Award Tickets:

Example: I just had one issued as LHR-FRA/x-NRT-HKG // SIN-FRA/x-LHR
Operating carriers are: LHR-FRA v.v. on LH, FRA-NRT and NRT-HKG on NH, SIN-FRA on SQ. It is a First class award, with FRA-NRT and SIN-FRA booked in first, all others in Business. There were no seats on UA in F for NRT-HKG, so I took NH in C for that sector.

Now the restrictions once the ticket is issued:

-Valid only on LH/SQ/NH
-Rebooking permitted for Euro 40
-Rerouting not possible

So though I have paid miles for F class, even if UA releases seats for NRT-HKG in F in the future, I still cannot change to that, and have to stay with NH in C.
However, since LH is operating some of the flights, I could in theory, if I wanted to, change to an LH operated flight for either FRA-NRT or SIN-FRA in F instead of SQ or NH.

So the operating carriers, booking class and the routing cannot be changed from those in the original ticket.

Some inaccurate assumptions here. Date and time ARE considered "material changes" at least by UA and expressly not allowed on a ticket AFTER departure. If other airlines allow it, then UA is being overly prohibitive although I don't necessarily expect those kind of changes. But it is good to know if others allow even that.

From the thread you have pointed to that I started, I would like to differentiate a crucial point you are glossing over in the above characterization for COS change to compare with other airlines.

Case 1: You ticket an award in business class and pay for business class miles. Later after departure, you want to change to either economy or first class. That to me would be a material change. UA allows this before departure but you will need to redeposit the miles (with a fee) and reticket.

Case 2: You ticket an award in business class and pay for business class for entire route but one or more of the segments do not have a business class available for awards (even if empty) and so you are provided a coach seat. Later, that partner airline releases a seat in business class for awards. So anyone who books now can get all business class for the same amount you paid. However, when you ask to be upgraded to the class of service you have already paid for, this is considered as a change. I do not consider this as a material change but a necessary change. UA allows you to do this before departure but not after departure.

The reason to differentiate these is because ailrines can make different policies for the two above.

Not true. Before departure both route/date/time/partner changes are allowed. No fee if source and destnations are same. Otherwise reticket with a fee for depositing the miles back. UA does not allow time/date changes or any other change on any partner airline segments AFTER departure.

What are the restrictions on LH before departure and what are they after departure of the first leg or is there no difference?

There are two sets of distinct time periods for LH with specific rules for each. One is pre-ticketing and the other post-ticketing.

And there is no distinction/rule differences AFAIK for before departure and after departure of the first leg.

AC's Aeroplan Star Rewards allow NO voluntary changes of any kind (day/time/reroute/reissue) once ticketed. (They also tell you any "standby" or change of time/day is at discretion of operating carrier at the airport, although they will then go on to tell you the chances of that happening are slim ! )

To change anything once booking is ticketed and prior ro departure of first flight on the itinerary, they require you to cancel the original booking, have points recredited to the account and you start all over again from scratch. After travel has commenced, even that option is lost to you.
Some exceptions have been noted, but these are of a drastic nature and require proof in writing. (Drastic = death of family member etc.)

By comparison, their AC rewards (using AC metal 100%) aren't so draconian.

So they will allow you to rebook with Euro 40 fee after traveling the first leg affecting the remainder legs? Good thing if they do but I find it amazing. They must have some restrictions on such a thing.

Also in your scenario what happens if NH had a F seat become available which wasn't at the time you booked (this is assuming NH had a 3-class cabin. If it doesn't let us assume it does hypotehtically).

Yes, date changes for the return are permitted for 40 euros even after travelling the first leg. Only restriction of course is 'subject to space availability'.

Don't know. Only thing related, I do know is that I can't go for the UA F seat in the future. Also I'm pretty sure that the booking class must stay the same. So since I am booked in 'I' class on NH for NRT-HKG, I must stay in 'I' class although the date could change. I don't think I could change to 'O' class once the ticket is issued though.

UA does not allow ANY change after departure even with a fee.

It would appear that airlines make up rules for themselves rather than have a uniform Star Alliance rule. In your scenario, if LH wanted to accommodate you in UA when F seat became available, I suppose they could even if they had to reissue a ticket. I don't see why UA would object. And yet UA gives the partner airline (or from some agents Star Alliance rules) as the reason they don't allow these changes after departure. That doesn't sound right.

Happy to hear more experiences.

Ok. So far, M&M and Aeroplan don't allow any fare-basis or carrier changes after departure.

Anyone with SQ/TG/OZ/BD/US experience want to weigh in?

<G>

TG is more flexible on flight/date change after departure witout fee as long as you hold TG award ticket being an ROP member, and the ticket is valid for one year.

Mylene: Does that mean that you can make changes if your flights are all on TG? What if the flights include *A partners (like UA, LH), not only TG?

If your flights are all on UA, Mileage Plus allows you to make any changes you want, pretty much. The problem is when the flights are on non-UA carriers....

Thx,

<G>

T&C for Asiana Bonus Club (OZ) Star Alliance awards

1. Validity: 1 year, non-extendable

2. All segments must be confirmed in advance, standby not permitted

3. All changes to the itinerary must be completed 3 days prior to departure.

4. Once ticketed, you cannot change the itinerary in any way

5. Once ticketed, no re-deposit of tickets except for wholly unused tickets

6. Lost Star awards tickets will not be replaced, reissued or refunded for mileage

7. Child and infant tickets are charged at the Adult rate

8. No unaccompanied minor tickets will be issued (ie. all award travel by under-12s has to be accompanied by an adult)

All in all, a pretty shocking set of rules... it can be summarized as use it or lose it, lose it and lose it (quite literally!!) I'm surprised people even bother to use OZ miles for Star awards, since it's also vastly expensive...!


Miles flown / Y / C / F

1-3000 / 35k / 45k / 70k
3001-5000 / 45k / 65k / 90k
5001-8000 / 50k / 75k / 100k
8001-10000 / 55k / 80k / 110k
10001-15000 / 80k / 120k / 160k
15001-20000 / 100k / 150k / 200k
20001-25000 / 120k / 180k / 240k
25001-30000 / 140k / 220k / 280k
30001-35000 / 160k / 240k / 320k
35001-40000 / 180k / 270k / 360k

==========================

Does anyone have the info on BD? I am quite interested in how restrictive their Star awards are... Thanks