Those new to this thread (especially UA pax): Keep reading, because it has morphed into a very interesting discussion on the poor F service on UA... enjoy! xpacific

I have enjoyed reading the many posts to ORDDB's recent thread regarding Star biz class. The wife and I are taking a much-awaited trip to Europe this September and are prepared to burn a couple hundred thousand miles to go in style. We're flying into Paris and out of London, however we can be flexibile (i.e. into BRU, AMS... out of MAN, BHX), since our activities are not set in stone yet, and the main focus is to explore the Cotswalts (condo is near Birmingham), with an open-jaw to also see Paris.

I was considering SQ's service from ORD, but I think it has been cancelled? Their SpaceBed in biz class would have saved us some miles. Then again, it would have taken us via FFT. Tried www.star-alliance.com for more ideas but it now directs you to www.staralliance.com which does not work (DNS problems, so it seems).

Anyway, what is the best F service (or flat-bed C service) in your opinion? Thanks!

corrected the URL link for Star Alliance web site (it still is not working)

[This message has been edited by xpacific (edited 05-03-2003).]

[This message has been edited by xpacific (edited 05-15-2003).]

SQ is definately the nicest, followed by LH. Both have superb F service. LH, actually, may be a cut above, mainly because they have many more flights, and the departures are not quite as late in the pm as SQ's.

NZ also has a nice service out of LA to LHR.

As far a flat C seats are concerned, do any *A carriers have them yet transatlantic? Don't think so.

BD is my favorite in C, followed by OS, UA, SK (in that order). BD's C service is better than F on UA.

Almost everyone's C service is better than F on UA. Even C service on UA is better than F service on UA because in C the stewardesses actually work whereas in F they typically stay in the galley seemingly because they're too old to walk all the way to the F cabin. I once watched the clock in awe as a banana peel lay on the aisle-side armrest in row 1 for 2 hours 40 minutes before a stewardess could be bothered to pick it up. That is not atypical. In UA's C cabin it would have been picked up within an hour.

On night flights where I must fly UA, I choose F for the seats, but on daytime flights I've requested C when holding F tickets in order to get the mediocre service that's not available in UA's F cabin.

Wow, this counters what I had been thinking and I really appreciate the heads-up.

The NZ web site would indicate that First does not recline completely flat?

UA's 1K reservation agent indicated that LH's F class does not recline flat, but from the LH web site I see that it does indeed!

I think I will go for the night flight over to Paris on UA in F and then day trip back from MAN on BD in C. From the other thread in this forum it would appear that the pitch, recline and legroom on BD seem similar to Delta's Buisness Elite, which I quite enjoy. The ORD connection will work great getting back to SLC too. Will UA let me mix the classes this way (F out with C back)?

If your flight to CDG is served by a Paris based crew, you can expect to enjoy good inflight service as well as good seats and UA's good ground service. If it will be served by a US based crew, take your own water and snack food as you won't be able to count on getting any service from the geriatric stewardesses who work in F.

There is no reason why you can't mix F going and C returning, however, you will need to pay the F allotment of 100K miles, not a 90K average of 80K and 100K.

You are spending miles for F travel, why would you want to come back in C? You spend the same amount of miles. Why not choose LH? I have flown both UA and LH trans-atlantic. I would say overall LH in F is much better than UA.
Another point: try to get a longer flight time to Europe so that you can sleep longer. Generally I do not like to fly F from the eastcoast. From SLC, I would ask for a connection in SFO, or DEN.

Thanks everyone for the great advice. For now we have booked F on UA out of SFO to CDG (thanks for the tip CGK as to getting a longer sleep this way). Hopefully we will get the CDG crew (thanks for the heads-up zvezda
)

I am going to have to re-do the return as for now it is a cruddy UA routing to NYC with more domestic F and layovers than actual international F time. LH beckons!

Fly NYC-FRA with SQ! Excellent in F, and a flat-bed "SpaceBed" in C ...

Just my 2 cents.

That is the funniest / most interesting / most revealing thing I think I've ever read on FT! I'm assuming you're being serious... Have other people done this? What did they say at check-in? If ever there was a comment that a CEO should read it's this one.

Just remember when booking F on UA to stay off of the 763's. On the return you may want to look into going through FRA or MUC to SFO and onto SLC with LH for the Trans-Atlantic portion in F. They DO have flat-bed First seats, UA was wrong, and as mentioned service is great.

This quote also deserves honorable mention:
If it will be served by a US based crew, take your own water and snack food as you won't be able to count on getting any service from the geriatric stewardesses who work in F.

Let's see... tell me again why some people pay $10K to go r/t in intl UA F?

Sadly, quite serious. The typical responses are "Oh, ok." and "I've heard it's bad, but is it really _that_ bad?"

Thanks again all for your comments, especially those from zvezda who provided us all of us on this thread a good chucke or two!

I ended up booking UA both ways, since there seemed to be no inventory on my dates on LH or SQ. I will let zvezda know via e-mail my impressions of the service. I guess for good measure we will be sure to bring along the bottled water and snacks just in case... Bringing on our own hot towels might be a stretch, however

I really didn't mean anything in this thread to be funny. I used to accept the seat assignment in F and then if the geriatrics stayed in the galley, I would wander back to C, find an inviting seat, and wait for a stewardess to ask what she could bring. I would often eat in C too as on UA the F and C main courses are often the same and I usually skip dessert anyway. Of course, I would at first be challenged for my boarding pass because they would think that I had come from the Y cabin. I would show it to the stewardess and she typically would ask me if there was a problem with my seat in F. I would reply, "No, the F seat is fine. The problem is that there is no service in F." The usual answer was "Oh."

This all changed, however, after 9-11. Upon challenge, I presented my F boarding pass as usual. The stewardess said, "Passengers are required to remain in their assigned cabin." I said, "Excuse me?" She said, "SIR, IF YOU DON'T TAKE YOUR ASSIGNED SEAT, THE CAPTAIN WILL HAVE TO DIVERT THE AIRCRAFT." I must have stared in shock for a few seconds before I silently returned to F. Now I just ask the gate agent when the service is more important to me than the seat.

Zvezda's response is, unfortunately, dead on. While I have never heard of people ticketed in F asking for the downgrade, I do know several people who normally purchase F tix who will only purchase C if flying on a UA flight because the service is better in C.
My recent experience in F SFO-NRT was perhaps the worst service I have ever gotten in a premium cabin on any airline! 1 hr after takeoff and the old ladies still hadn't asked what I wanted to drink. When I finally got my champagne it came in a red wine glass when there were plenty of flutes lying around the galley! I asked why and was told, "Oh I wanted to just give you more" ...??? Food took forever, had to ask for water about 20 times...nobody ever came around to refil my glass. Every time I walked back to C there was a f/a in the aisle doing a check!!
My SWU's will be used by my girlfriend on LH from now on and I will be flying on SQ in a spacebed!