With the impending loss os US and TAM to OW after their respective mergers what is *A going to do? At present we have no ability to get around Australia, we basically have no sane ability to go intra-S.America and domestic US seats will be harder to come by. Who else is out there (worthwhile additions, not more Copa style airlines) that *A can grab? The way I see it, they need an Australian partner, a real S.American partner an Indian partner and ideally but not required a middle eastern one, in order to have a truly global, convenient network.

I agree that we need an Indian and Middle Eastern, for South American there is AV/TM. I also don't understand what you have against CM.

I agree they do need a Indian partner but if you remebers both Star and oneworld failed at getting their Indian member elects to join star had Air India who was intergrating for 3 years and was not ready to join and oneworld had the now defunct Kingfisher airlines. Until the Indian Airlines get their act together they will not be a Indian member joining an alliance. As for south america CM had always a close relationship with CO now merged into UA so it make sense that Copa joined star because their partner CO/UA was in it. South America also has the AV-TM group. Between CM,AV,TM, star alliance has or will have a presence in Peru, Ecuador, El Salvador, Honduras, Panama, Colombia, Nicaragua and Costa Rica and the possiblity of still having a Brazilian Partner with the addition of Avianca Brazil.

Can you please explain why would you say "there is basically an Australian airline with NZ"? Lack of geography knowledge or pure ignorance?

On top of that OP was talking about intra (around Australia) Australian and indeed since demise of old good Ansett Australia, there is no way to go around Australia on *A. Many people think that VA (Virgin Australia - until recently DJ) would be good pick, but most people do not think VA will join any alliance any time soon...

Part of the problem is who is left. Looking at south america, the only major group not in an alliance is GOL and they are effectively blocked because of the stake delta has in them. In Australia, the only choice is Virgin Australia who seems quite happy at the moment going the individual tie-ups route. India is full of basket case airlines at the moment, though that may eventually sort itself out. A true middle eastern airline would be great and Qatar would likely be joining if Lufthansa hadn't scared them away. Etihad doesn't seem likely given their stake in Air Berlin and Emirates is still doing their thing. Domestic Russia could also use some love. Here, it's Utair or Transaero (perhaps both if all parties involved really wanted in).

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It's in the same leage as saying that LH is basically a US airline because they fly to a lot of destinations in the US .

What we are all looking for are those intra-australian options, not just getting there or flying SYD-AKL-MEL.

All that, and that still doesn't address UA's possible monopoly on US domestic *A routes

VA is very close to DL and they do code share with each other on AUS-US routes, even VA wants to join the alliance, Skyteam will be their first choice I would say.

Air NZ has the worst FFP in *A, I don't know how easy to redeem an award ticket on it, but certainly the most difficult to accrue mileage on its ticket.

Sure, in just the same way that Oneonta, NY is "close to" Dallas (=AKL-SYD) or to Wolverhampton, England (=AKL-PER).

vbroucek, I think you are right.

cheers,

Henry

Oh yes, typical Yankee ignorance...

They look close on a map.... You're saying that a flight time of >3hours isn't close?

The problem is, that if you're in say Sao Paulo and want to go somewhere else in Brazil or Argentina transiting through Bogota or CM's hub is a huge inconvenience. TAM made S.America much easier. As for the domestic Russian suggestions, I haven't flown Transaero or the others, how bad are they?

As far as south america goes, avianca brasil is expanding and might pick up a few international routes to help fill at least some gaps. On the russian carriers, can't speak to the quality of them but russia is the biggest market where, of the three alliances, Star is the only one missing a domestic partner.

Sure, *A doesn't have truly global coverage. But you could say the same about OW and ST. Even with CX, JL and soon MH, OW is simply dominated in Asia by *A and ST on most routes. OW is essentially only dominant in a few important international markets: the Kangaroo Route, NYC-LON and pretty much anything to do with South America. Australian domestic flying is not nearly important enough to make or break an alliance; I don't understand the jealousy some *A flyers have over QF's membership in OW. If you need to fly domestically in Australia, fly QF. If you just need to get to Australia, NZ and SQ fly to plenty of Australian destinations. As for ST, they were utterly hopeless in South America until the recent addition of AR, but I'd still rather be a *A flyer if I needed to get to South America from Europe/North America than a ST flyer because of AR's thin international network.

The point is, I think South America is big enough and important enough for *A to make it their priority to crack into OW's dominance in the region. However, AV, CM and TA are perfectly good airlines and for now we still have JJ so things are not as bad as some would make it out to be. I'd also like to see Middle Eastern/Russian airlines joining, but for now at least *A has TK which has a great route network into the ME/CIS. I'm not too particularly concerned about domestic Australia or even domestic China where *A lags behind ST because they're just not that important.