diver858

https://beatofhawaii.com/southwest-a...tes-by-over-50

So much for all of the early hype of WN dominating the Hawaii market.

LegalTender

Hawaii tourism is wobbly, at best. 3* Hotels for $500+ per night?

At the same time, in 2024, Americans are traveling to Europe in record numbers.

jmw

Much easier to shift airplanes from business routes to leisure Hawaii routes than to build more hotels. That's why there are money losing $99 fares but no $99 rooms per night. The airfare is very affordable but the rest of the vacation (lodging, rental cars, parking, etc.) is absurdly unaffordable. Then you throw in the towel and go somewhere else or book a cruise.

GlobeTrttr83

^^ This, exactly this. DW and I were looking for a quick 1-week getaway for this spring. Hawaii was in the mix. Checked DL, WN, AA as those are the programs that I prioritize. Flights to Hawaii on pretty much any carrier except DL out of ATL were at least the same price if not cheaper than most of western European cities. The flight distance and time is also the same at about 8-10hr non-stop or 12-14hr with 1 stop.

We're flexible travelers; we seek more history/outdoorsy pursuits/adventures than fly-and-flop luxury.

We chose Spain on AA simply because we knew that once on the ground, mid-range hotels, good food and ancillary costs will be a fraction of what a squalid existence anywhere in Hawaii would cost. So, Hawaii can just wait.

daw4888

As others have said, the cost to vacation in HI has just gotten to a level that people avoid it. For most of the US, you can fly to the Caribbean in a fraction of the time, and stay for a week or two for a much lower price.

We have wanted to go to Hawaii the last couple of years for our spring trip. But given we live in the mid-west, the flight time to get there is 3x longer than almost anywhere in the Caribbean, and the costs once you factor in food/drinks is almost double, we always end up picking something else.

diver858

Residents - particularly on Kauai and Maui - have been griping in recent years about the increase in budget visitors, who they suggest are not very respectful of the culture and traditions; appears they may be getting what they wish for.

Hawaii still makes a ton of sense for those of us on the West Coast, similar to why we do not visit the Caribbean very often.

With that said: many of the prognosticators suggested AS would retreat when WN entered the HI market; I am still able to fly nonstop between SAN and 4 major islands on AS, WN is now down to 1 or 2.

CA1900

I wonder if some of that is related to the terminal construction, which has taken several of Southwest's gates out of service. Maybe some of those nonstops will return when the new terminal opens? I hope so!

diver858

With the AS acquisition of HA expected to close by the end of next year, it will be very difficult for WN to recover lost Hawaii market share - SAN and elsewhere. Combined entity will be in a position to offer widebody service, use price to fill the back of the bus, lots of premium economy and business seats in the front to gain and keep market share, go toe to toe with the Big 3.
As part of OW, AA loyalists will be able to book revenue and award seats on AS where AA does not currently offer service, have direct access to a vast interisland network.

jmw

Hawaii makes zero sense to me as someone who lives on the west coast. No thank you on the $500/night rooms. I would be hesitant to fly there even with $49 each way fares. The high prices in Hawaii are not a result of budget travelers behaving badly. It's all about the money.

The number of rooms in Hawaii has not increased especially with the fire and AirBNB bans. What happened is that the top 10% of income earners are doing way better today than before the pandemic. Most used to work from the office so partial or full work from home has helped many save on transportation and food expenses. The top 10% are already homeowners so they don't need to worry about inflationary rent increases. As a result, the top 10% have a lot more disposable income than before. Today Hawaii is only for the rich and there are more rich people capable of paying for Hawaii than ever. Those of us who are in the top 10% of income but cheap (me) or the bottom 90% are not going to bite on the $99 Hawaii fares and will go Caribbean, the cheaper countries in Asia, cruises, etc. I love Hawaii, but I'm tapping out of Hawaii. I'm glad I got to experience Hawaii while it was affordable. Time for me to move on.

nsx

Fiji's outer islands have some ultra-affordable idyllic options. For example $100 a night plus $50 per person per day for meals at barefootmantafiji. You can use Alaska miles and make Fiji your free stopover going to Australia, New Zealand (there are flights to CHC), or elsewhere in the South Pacific. FJ business class is great but almost impossible to book with miles. Coach is fine if you buy an extra legroom seat up font. Lodging prices in NZ have nearly doubled from pre-2020 levels, but NZ is still cheaper than Hawaii, and the South Island scenery and people are unbeatable.

Hawaii was great from November 2020 until early 2022, then the travel rebound crushed it. Wait for the next recession to go there.

P.S. Alaska is changing their award chart at the end of March, and I have not checked how this will affect stopover routing to Oceania. But you can currently get coach seats at about 40k each way with a stopover in Fiji or in Sydney (with Qantas), which is a deal. United also has a nonstop from SFO to CHC which should have plentiful coach award seats.

djp98374

I disagree. With AS and hawaii consolidating service you will habve other airlines adding routes.

southwest will restore routes.

the problem is in flight routing. Southwest needs to operate red eyes from hawaii to thrn allow customers to book full bookings. Now thry need to do split bookings on return.

I agree, post construction they will expand service.

djp98374

hawaii is equal to Caribbean/ Bahamas/ south Florida/ Cancun for those in the east. Many islands in the Caribbean are expensive too.

djp98374

so you have e never been to hawaii before…..

I’ve done both

hawaii is very outdoorsy and you could do it without being at a resort. Maui is the hardest one to avoid expensive places but the other 3 islands you can get reasonable hotels.

living in hawaii is much more expensive than mainland. Many things need to be flown or shipped. Yes food can and usually is more expensive. There are places solely based on local ingredients.

diver858

Whatever makes you happy; you are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

https://www.mauinews.com/news/local-...s-with-tourism
https://www.travelweekly.com/Hawaii-...-ups-and-downs

I personally find it difficult to understand how parking lots of resorts on Maui and Kauai charging well over $500 per night are still full - clearly there are enough people willing to pay for the premium experience. Kona side of the Big Island is still quite affordable, my favorite Hawaii destination. I find condo complexes that we like on VRBO, then do research online to find the property management company for specific units, typically able to book without the VRBO fees, more favorable terms. Travelzoo periodically advertises very good deals for hotels on Kauai and Oahu.

Ocean view and ocean front condos can still be had on Maui and the Kona side of the Big Island for less than $300 per night if you know where to look. Decent hotels in Waikiki can be found for less than $200 per night, less than $300 for something a bit nicer. Car rentals on Kauai and Maui have not dropped much from their pandemic highs, Kona and Oahu have become much more reasonable.

GlobeTrttr83

Yes, been to Maui & Oahu about 15 years ago and understand the higher costs of all goods brought in, etc. It seems that another major reason for the high pricing is the cache factor of anything "Hawaii" for U.S. mainlanders. Many people still see this as a distant bucket-list place to visit and are prepared to pay anything to fulfill their dream/vision of what they think a Hawaiian vacation looks like. And now, more so after Covid.