Flight Canceled Without Permission?
Feb 21, 2019, 4:50 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 102
Flight Canceled Without Permission?
I have a group of friends I travel with every year and there is always indecision on if we will arrive on a Wednesday or a Thursday. Since I have enough points I have always booked the Wednesday and the Thursday one way flight early and then just canceled the one I didn’t need when the decision was finally made. I have done this for many years. No malicious intent, just trying to make sure I get the Flight times and prices I want.
last night, in the middle of the night, Southwest canceled my Wednesday flight. This is the first time this ever happened. I am assuming there is some new algorithm in place that noticed I had two flights that were unrealistically close and the computer decided I could only have one of them. Just wondering if there is some new policy in place as this never happened to me before. Further, even though I received the email stating my points were refunded I’m actually Not quite sure they were so now I need to deal with that as well.
Just wanted to check if what I was doing was unscrupulous and I’ve just been getting lucky or if there is a new policy in place where I can no longer hold two reservations like this anymore. I was just sort of shocked to see Southwest cancel something without permission like that. In all my years, this is the first time.
last night, in the middle of the night, Southwest canceled my Wednesday flight. This is the first time this ever happened. I am assuming there is some new algorithm in place that noticed I had two flights that were unrealistically close and the computer decided I could only have one of them. Just wondering if there is some new policy in place as this never happened to me before. Further, even though I received the email stating my points were refunded I’m actually Not quite sure they were so now I need to deal with that as well.
Just wanted to check if what I was doing was unscrupulous and I’ve just been getting lucky or if there is a new policy in place where I can no longer hold two reservations like this anymore. I was just sort of shocked to see Southwest cancel something without permission like that. In all my years, this is the first time.
Feb 21, 2019, 5:50 am
#3
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: AA EXP, DL-Plat, WN-CP | Hotels: Choice-Gld, IHG-Plt, Rad-Gld, HH-Dia, Hyatt-Glob, Marriott-LtPlt
Posts: 2,889
I have a group of friends I travel with every year and there is always indecision on if we will arrive on a Wednesday or a Thursday. Since I have enough points I have always booked the Wednesday and the Thursday one way flight early and then just canceled the one I didn’t need when the decision was finally made. I have done this for many years. No malicious intent, just trying to make sure I get the Flight times and prices I want.
last night, in the middle of the night, Southwest canceled my Wednesday flight. This is the first time this ever happened. I am assuming there is some new algorithm in place that noticed I had two flights that were unrealistically close and the computer decided I could only have one of them. Just wondering if there is some new policy in place as this never happened to me before. Further, even though I received the email stating my points were refunded I’m actually Not quite sure they were so now I need to deal with that as well.
Just wanted to check if what I was doing was unscrupulous and I’ve just been getting lucky or if there is a new policy in place where I can no longer hold two reservations like this anymore. I was just sort of shocked to see Southwest cancel something without permission like that. In all my years, this is the first time.
last night, in the middle of the night, Southwest canceled my Wednesday flight. This is the first time this ever happened. I am assuming there is some new algorithm in place that noticed I had two flights that were unrealistically close and the computer decided I could only have one of them. Just wondering if there is some new policy in place as this never happened to me before. Further, even though I received the email stating my points were refunded I’m actually Not quite sure they were so now I need to deal with that as well.
Just wanted to check if what I was doing was unscrupulous and I’ve just been getting lucky or if there is a new policy in place where I can no longer hold two reservations like this anymore. I was just sort of shocked to see Southwest cancel something without permission like that. In all my years, this is the first time.
If the latter, than, there are other threads related to automatic cancellations that you should read to give you background. Here is a recent one: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/southwest-airlines-rapid-rewards/1956132-southwest-aggressive-auto-cancellation-non-overlapping-flights.html and another: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/southwest-airlines-rapid-rewards/1956107-sw-system-auto-cancelling-duplicate-flights-etc.html
Feb 21, 2019, 6:09 am
#4
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Quite common under WN's updated contract.
This is not simply a change in the algorithm, but in WN's published policy to which OP agreed. It expressly prohibits the practice OP has engaged in and will auto-cancel. This is in line with the policy of every other carrier and is entirely reasonable as others looking for a reservation can't get one and then book on some other carrier and WN has lost the business.
What OP did was exactly what the policy is intended to prohibit. There may be some situations where a passenger would want the two one-ways a day apart because he was either flying another carrier or driving back between. One would then call WN and make certain that those facts are known.
"Prohibition on Multiple/Conflicting Reservations. To promote seat availability for our Customers, Southwest prohibits multiple reservations for the same Passenger departing from the same city on the same date, or any multiple reservations containing conflicting or overlapping itineraries (such as departures for the same Customer from multiple cities at the same time). Furthermore, without advance notice to the Passenger or purchaser, Southwest may cancel such reservations, or any other reservations that it believes, in its sole discretion, were made without intent to travel."
This is not simply a change in the algorithm, but in WN's published policy to which OP agreed. It expressly prohibits the practice OP has engaged in and will auto-cancel. This is in line with the policy of every other carrier and is entirely reasonable as others looking for a reservation can't get one and then book on some other carrier and WN has lost the business.
What OP did was exactly what the policy is intended to prohibit. There may be some situations where a passenger would want the two one-ways a day apart because he was either flying another carrier or driving back between. One would then call WN and make certain that those facts are known.
"Prohibition on Multiple/Conflicting Reservations. To promote seat availability for our Customers, Southwest prohibits multiple reservations for the same Passenger departing from the same city on the same date, or any multiple reservations containing conflicting or overlapping itineraries (such as departures for the same Customer from multiple cities at the same time). Furthermore, without advance notice to the Passenger or purchaser, Southwest may cancel such reservations, or any other reservations that it believes, in its sole discretion, were made without intent to travel."
Feb 21, 2019, 6:34 am
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 102
Thanks, this is exactly what happened. If this is a long standing policy I just must have been lucky in the past.
You’ve answered my question. I’ll now need to just hope for the best choice and if plans change then eat the additional cost of a later booking.
You’ve answered my question. I’ll now need to just hope for the best choice and if plans change then eat the additional cost of a later booking.
Feb 21, 2019, 6:41 am
#6
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: ORD, MDW or MKE
Programs: American and Southwest. Hilton and Marriott hotels primarily.
Posts: 6,461
It has always been against policy to make reservations that you don’t plan to use. Only recently did they start auto cancelling those reservations.
Feb 21, 2019, 6:52 am
#7
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
It may have been against policy, but it has been a violation of the contract since last June.
I am not a WN fan, but in the area of clarity, it does a good job. The contract is written in plain English.
I am not a WN fan, but in the area of clarity, it does a good job. The contract is written in plain English.
Feb 21, 2019, 7:14 am
#8
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Nashville -Past DL Plat, FO, WN-CP, various hotel programs
Programs: DL-MM, AA, SW w/companion,HiltonDiamond, Hyatt PLat, IHF Plat, Miles and Points Seeker
Posts: 11,072
Quite common under WN's updated contract.
This is not simply a change in the algorithm, but in WN's published policy to which OP agreed. It expressly prohibits the practice OP has engaged in and will auto-cancel. This is in line with the policy of every other carrier and is entirely reasonable as others looking for a reservation can't get one and then book on some other carrier and WN has lost the business.
What OP did was exactly what the policy is intended to prohibit. There may be some situations where a passenger would want the two one-ways a day apart because he was either flying another carrier or driving back between. One would then call WN and make certain that those facts are known.
"Prohibition on Multiple/Conflicting Reservations. To promote seat availability for our Customers, Southwest prohibits multiple reservations for the same Passenger departing from the same city on the same date, or any multiple reservations containing conflicting or overlapping itineraries (such as departures for the same Customer from multiple cities at the same time). Furthermore, without advance notice to the Passenger or purchaser, Southwest may cancel such reservations, or any other reservations that it believes, in its sole discretion, were made without intent to travel."
This is not simply a change in the algorithm, but in WN's published policy to which OP agreed. It expressly prohibits the practice OP has engaged in and will auto-cancel. This is in line with the policy of every other carrier and is entirely reasonable as others looking for a reservation can't get one and then book on some other carrier and WN has lost the business.
What OP did was exactly what the policy is intended to prohibit. There may be some situations where a passenger would want the two one-ways a day apart because he was either flying another carrier or driving back between. One would then call WN and make certain that those facts are known.
"Prohibition on Multiple/Conflicting Reservations. To promote seat availability for our Customers, Southwest prohibits multiple reservations for the same Passenger departing from the same city on the same date, or any multiple reservations containing conflicting or overlapping itineraries (such as departures for the same Customer from multiple cities at the same time). Furthermore, without advance notice to the Passenger or purchaser, Southwest may cancel such reservations, or any other reservations that it believes, in its sole discretion, were made without intent to travel."
Feb 21, 2019, 7:16 am
#9
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Nashville -Past DL Plat, FO, WN-CP, various hotel programs
Programs: DL-MM, AA, SW w/companion,HiltonDiamond, Hyatt PLat, IHF Plat, Miles and Points Seeker
Posts: 11,072
I have a group of friends I travel with every year and there is always indecision on if we will arrive on a Wednesday or a Thursday. Since I have enough points I have always booked the Wednesday and the Thursday one way flight early and then just canceled the one I didn’t need when the decision was finally made. ...
For example, if the Wed flight arrived late Wed night and the Thurs was early in the day - and no way for the passenger to actually get back in time to make the 2nd flight.
Feb 21, 2019, 7:30 am
#10
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Chicagoland, IL, USA
Programs: WN CP, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 14,192
If you have 2 flights A-B booked 24 hours apart and plan to cancel one or the other of them depending on how your day works out, then manifestly you do not intend to take the other.
And “sole discretion” has a meaning.
Seems pretty clear to me.
And on the off chance you are a courier or some such
who flies back and forth daily, contact WN and tell them.
Feb 21, 2019, 7:58 am
#11
Join Date: Oct 2001
Programs: LTP, PP
Posts: 8,699
“Furthermore, without advance notice to the Passenger or purchaser, Southwest may cancel such reservations, or any other reservations that it believes, in its sole discretion, were made without intent to travel."
If you have 2 flights A-B booked 24 hours apart and plan to cancel one or the other of them depending on how your day works out, then manifestly you do not intend to take the other.
And “sole discretion” has a meaning.
Seems pretty clear to me.
If you have 2 flights A-B booked 24 hours apart and plan to cancel one or the other of them depending on how your day works out, then manifestly you do not intend to take the other.
And “sole discretion” has a meaning.
Seems pretty clear to me.
Last edited by joshua362; Feb 21, 2019 at 8:47 am
Feb 21, 2019, 8:27 am
#12
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Nashville -Past DL Plat, FO, WN-CP, various hotel programs
Programs: DL-MM, AA, SW w/companion,HiltonDiamond, Hyatt PLat, IHF Plat, Miles and Points Seeker
Posts: 11,072
I have a few trips booked for early June, but the days are not locked down yet. They have been in the system for around a month now without any cancelation by WN.
Wondering if or when they might cancel one of them.
Wondering if or when they might cancel one of them.
Feb 21, 2019, 8:55 am
#13
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
That may be intentional so that there is never a comfort zone and it may also relate to loads. If a flight is at 20% load right now, no need to cancel out duplicates. But, as it edges up, perhaps that becomes a reason.
I doubt that WN will ever publish the alogorithm and I further doubt that anecdotes will be useful for the same reason.
Feb 21, 2019, 1:52 pm
#15
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
The options are either to impose a change fee or to enforce this rule.
It is also a zero-sum game. The same people who get away with this are also losing on the other end when they try to book and find sold out flights. Overall, this is clearly a revenue matter for WN, but it is a side benefit for passengers.