FluffyBunnyFuFu

[Emphasis.]

I hope the trash reference was to the fact that there are trash and recycling bins near every gate or to the fact that you were left to resolve your unfortunate situation by yourself and not that your fellow passengers are trash.

SDCA

Oh noooo.....

An Elite flyer from the legacy carriers will NEVER call SWA flyers "trash". lol

jrpaguia

Agreed! The US Club Saints have been very good to me. And yes, the club attendants are also quite attentive in ensuring that the lounge is continually spotless and clutter free.

Once again, I agree. However, they're making some progress towards recognizing that the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many.

I'm hardly a warrior, but as someone who's been commuting in sunny California over the past 3+ years, I can say with all sincerity that the pluses and minuses between WN and US* tend to even out.

*Although US gets the nod when considering her very hott and sexy friends, OZ, NH, and SQ.

FCfree

If your int'l travel by itself, or with just a little help from the DEN-LAS travel, will get you to a status level (especially the 1P level), then, as I understand it, your upgrade rate will be pretty good. That is a big thing to consider.

If your int'l travel alone will get you to 2P or 1P in the near future, why not spread your business, with int'l on UA and domestic on WN until you hit status? Then, try a couple of domestic trips on UA and see what kind of upgrade success you have. I hear the upgrade rate is better if you are flying the earliest flights of the day. After that, gauge your upgrade rate against the UA downsides (change fee, having to go through hubs intra-CA). If UA is working for you, shift more to them. If not, stick with WN domestically and its obvious benefits (no change fee, more non-stops).

The biggest frustration to me would be putting all your eggs in the UA basket, only to discover that UDU (unlimited domestic upgrades) rarely works for U!

Another frustrating thing to me is that "status" is a "barrier to entry." With UA, you've got to "pay your dues" as a general member until you get to 2P or 1P. They will treat you like dirt until you do (bag fees, no priority on changing flights). Then, and only then, when you are in the 2P/1P club, do you find out if things are really as rosy as some people say they are. I think your actual experience will depend on your routes and flight times.

Depending on your int'l destinations, another thing to consider is AA for int'l. I think AA, and especially its partner, Cathay Pacific are superior to United. UA, from what I hear, does have a good partner in Singapore Airlines. Depends where you are going int'l. While AA doesn't serve DEN as well domestically, you've essentially got the same service when going int'l. Points earned on AA are just as useful, for example, if you still need to get to ORD.

Many things to consider.

Boraxo

+1

Even though I am UA 1P (50k/year elite status) I usually fly WN for short haul travel especially when flying with family. Upgrades really don't matter for a 1-2 hour flight and in any case are difficult to get when traveling on popular routes from elite heavy SFO. So the main benefit to you from flying UA would be to accumulate miles for international travel. And with a large family it is going to take you a long time to accumulate enough particularly if you are only flying those short haul routes.

Contrast to WN - you will get status fast which will give you some of the same perks as UA - elite security line, priority boarding, better seats, etc. Plus you will have no problem cashing in your points when you want to use them for leisure travel on WN under RR 2.0 v. rolling the dice on United. Want to use miles to fly to MCO on easter week or to Mexico over Christmas? Good luck on UA.

Don't get me wrong I appreciate having UA's E+ seat for the infrequent transcons and the rare SFO-based free UDU upgrade (it was nice to fly SFO-CUN in F over Xmas even though the tix weren't cheap). But for short haul traveler like yourself with an entourage for leisure trips, WN is a no brainer. Not to mention that the CP will save you some real money if you take a few family trips each year.

Could not disagree more. WN is great for short haul frequent flyers (ask NSX) and provides better more reliable and often cheaper service on these routes than any of the others with no garbage fees. Status from a hub is not always worth much comparatively. Of course if you are large and really need E+ or F then that could change the equation, as would the desire to use miles primarily for international travel.

This is pure hogwash. I've never had trouble redeeming awards on WN and it will be even easier with removal of capacity controls under RR 2.0. And UA's gate lice lend itself more to greyhound than WN's orderly boarding process.

You obviously don't fly elite heavy routes much. I flew SFO-IAD-SFO last week and the upgrade wait list had 50-70 people each time (as 1P I was @#39). Many 1Ks got denied (check udustats.com to see how often this happens) and probably some late bookers ended up in E-. On UA, those making late bookings and changes will find themselves screwed out of a decent reserved seat because E+ is fully booked, whereas WN takes care of it's A-list customers.

lougord99

The level of eliteism on FT never fails to astound me.

UnitedEF

OP is talking about flying between DEN and LAS. Don't know what SFO has to do with the discussion.

Agreed.

Domestic F is still better than anything WN, free food, free drinks, wider seat and more legroom. From an upgrade stand point from economy, 3 cabin C > Domestic F > E+ > WN > E-.

I don't know why anyone would book speculative airline tickets but to each his own. The change fee policy is a bit over-hyped. It's been around forever and it's hurt the legacies so bad that the legacies have decided to continue charging it. I have yet to change dates but I have used the standby perk to take an earlier flight for free. 1P and lower now pay a fee to take an earlier flight but the fee is way cheaper than a WN anytime fare difference. OP is talking about flying enough to get status with UA so early boarding is a free perk.

I wouldn't say better FF program, but different. Great for domestic redemptions and schlepping family around the US but useless for international travel. Not to mention no partner airlines and no chance of flying premium cabins anywhere. Depending on loads, I've seen rev management at UA drop fares below what the anytime fare is on WN.


No problem. Besides it would be weird if I were trying to stow my carry-on in the closet only to see a fellow pax in the fetal position with the thumb in the mouth and the other hand around luggage with a WN tag As to your seat choice are you a tall person? Do you want more privacy? There is a noticeable difference in pitch between the seats in the UD and the seats below. I would say about 4" or so less upstairs. No problem since you have the aisle seat, but you will be getting up when your seat mate needs to get up.

If UA or AA had this WN would be done. Imagine flying a companion for free to everywhere the network could take you? No one would mind paying change fees.

Elites don't pay baggage fees.

For OP's trips, DEN - LAS, 7 direct flights on UA and 9 on WN. Not a big difference.

Still simple program. The perceived value is gone now since redemption is tied to cash prices. After thinking about it, WN made a great move for the company, assuming people stick around, as evidenced by people talking about RR 2.0 and how to "game" it. People are talking about paying for expensive fares and redeeming for cheaper tickets. If only I could get my customers to pay for expensive high margin products and I give them cheap products once in a while. Looks like that hefty consulting fee was well spent.

You should shop around. I pay my own way and a lot of times the legacies have the same if not cheaper price than WN thanks to WN and I have been upgraded 100% this year with 20k miles under my belt. Got a flight LAX - JFK on PS 3 class this weekend for $259.80 upgraded to Business both ways ^

I don't know if complex is the right word. Promos would just give you multiples of points earned. You just have to figure out if the amount of points earned for your redemption level is worth the effort for the promo.

If the fares are high, such as those peak travel times you mentioned, good luck with WN 2.0 especially if the WGA fares are sold out. No capacity controls but now you have to use a lot more points. With *A you could at least have options with CO and US. If OP makes 1K, the 1K saver inventory comes in real handy.

If you are running late because of a late connection or long security line, yes even elite lines can get long, you will not get a good seat if you get to the gate after boarding, unlike UA with assigned seats you could be last one on the plane and if you are ticketed for that exit row seat or bulkhead on the 319 you will get that seat. Nothing like having the option to get to your seat at your leisure and not worry about ending up in a bad seat.

Again we are trying to help the OP decide between WN and UA for DEN - LAS commutes. Nothing to do with SFO or IAD. I got denied my last UDU through IAD #16 on the list on a 3 class 777 but at least I still got E+. I didn't pay for C so I didn't mind not getting C. The OP has international trips on the horizon so *G lounge access would come in real handy for international flights.

Compared to WN just getting E+ would be reason enough to go with UA, UDU is just icing. With E+ you can actually work on your laptop if the person in front of you reclined. The seats on the 319 and 320 are wider than WN seats by an inch. UA has status challenges and fast tracks to get status up front. With the DEN - LAX I think OP will have good chances at upgrades according to udustats.com

My experiences on UA for international trips have been good. The seat is better than ANA, Asiana and Air China on the reconfigured planes. Food and service are decent, not as good as the Asian partners but works for me and a lot of people. UA Asian alliance partners include Singapore, Asiana, ANA and Air China. I've flown on all them all except for Singapore and they are all great airlines to fly with and will give the OP many more options than One World and Southwest

I have been bailed out by UA protecting my canceled flights, even maintaining my upgrade on an alternate flight as well as putting me on a competing non-alliance carrier to get me home.

uastarflyer

If it were me I'd keep both WN and UA as programs, and direct travel as needed to hit a milestone (and/or save money). I booked a couple RTs on WN the past month to finish off an award before 2.0 hits. Last year I put the same routes on US Air to help me requalify for 1K.

I got lucky, in that all my choices were also the lowest price option. Now that WN's program has no expiration date, I'll continue to book as often as possible on United and book WN for the screaming deals or intra-CA shorthauls, eventually earning a free ticket on WN (but no rush anymore, due to no expiration).

Hayden

I'm curious, if the OP is going to be DEN-based, why Frontier Airlines hasn't come up. It's all A319 service with 7 non-stops/day DEN-LAS (or LAS-DEN), as compared to WN's 9. You can get comfortable seats and new(er) planes, but with assigned seating--and some nice frequent flyer perks after a few flights.

To get to CMH on F9, you do have to connect in MKE or MCI, but you'd have to connect on WN, too.

lougord99

I am 3 weeks out. fares are cheap. I am not sure if I am coming home Wednesday or Thursday. No problem - book both. By the time I know when I am coming home, both WN and the legacies have become expensive. Its the reason I fly WN.

azepine00

I would suggest lowering the expectations of being pampered. Smth along the lines of "would be nice getting bumped up to 1st and suffer a bit less..." is a better way to put it.

pinworm

If you have status on the legacy, there are frequently..depending on the package..no bag or cancellation fees either. The OP is going to have to run internationally, so the OP needs to build status on a legacy or face TATL/TPAC in coach.

WN is a discount carrier, and ironically not that much of a discount anymore compared to others. USAirways, Jetblue, Virgin and the legacies often have the same prices..the differance is you can frequently share your miles across alliance partners while bargain basement WN exists in a vacuum and only provides more of the same no-frills product as it's reward.

An interesting term was used in another FT forum recently: "Reverse Snobbery". Those who resent higher tiers of travel, class or price. WN is painfully proletariat and probably fine for short hauls...but since it's competitive pricing went out the window, few of us can see any good reason to shoot for A-list status to get a better place in line for a better coach seat. It's absurd to do so actually. If your butt is going to fly twice a week, and when you are not paying, if you DON'T aim for higher status on a legacy you would be a fool, doubly so if you have to do international.

Have to go PHX-ONT once a quarter? Fine, use WN. Anything more frequent and using WN becomes not only self abuse, but self denial of future luxurious travel.

jrpaguia

Except the OP is still unsure as to what his travel patterns are going to be.

The one known quantity is he'll need to buy/redeem 5 tickets for domestic travel a few times a year. Earning one CP reduces that number to 4 (and possibly 3, given the excellent suggestion above regarding a second CP).

Redeeming WN credits/points is a good value for domestic travel. Using *A miles for anything that doesn't cross an ocean and/or goes below the equator is a waste.

Hayden

I can't speak to WN, but legacy frequent flyer miles can come in handy in domestic situations such as:

* Booking during the holidays (particularly last-minute) when the el cheapo fares are no longer available;

* Booking last-minute generally. Sometimes, flying is because of a life-or-death situation, and then, it can be handy to drop a few miles an hour before a flight as opposed to ponying up the walkup/anytime-equivalent fare.

* Booking trans-border flights (e.g., to Canada) when there can be a significant per-mile premium. Less frequent, now, with the growth of Porter and, to a lesser extent, Westjet (given Westjet's significant seasonal-only US destinations), depending on your origin and destination.

That's only to say that there are a number of situations where one might choose to save money by paying with miles. My experience is I've benefited in all three of the above situations. Of course, YMMV.

azepine00

I strongly disagree given the rapidly increasing fares. I booked domestic coach on one ways, open jaws, last minute trips and just booked christmas travel to HI with my exact preferred dates. I consider all to give me very good value providing a perfect fit for my plans.
An added benefit of being 1K is an ability to cancel for free if my plans change.
Obviously I seek international premium awards as well, no question about it, but domestic coach redemption is not a "waste".