pinworm

Here is the main diff between WN RR and other programs.

WN's is a product that works for infrequent or semi-frequent fliers. It is easy to get the RR award compared to other carriers, especially for someone that doesn't fly every week like many FTers. I was using it with my old job that required less travel. If you don't fly THAT much, you shouldn't bother with other carriers reward programs. Good boarding numbers on A list do not compare in the least with F and Business class upgrades. This only matters to people who rack up 50 thousand miles a year.

However, I have a job now that has me flying twice a week most weeks, and this reduces the value of RR and A-list awards for me due to a few factors:

WN doesn't have a first or business class. Now that I rack up miles quick, first and business upgrades are well within practical range for me, more so when you consider partner programs with car rentals and Amex cards. Now I can sit up front with the comp drinks and the big seats away from the stinking masses in coach. WN does not offer club lounges either.

WN doesn't fly international routes. Although it can take longer to score enough points on other carriers, I can get to Europe by directing my business elsewhere.

WN's A list and BS programs are nice, but only in the context of WN itself. They do not belong to Star Alliance etc. ATA code share to Hawaii no longer exists. West Jet code share is seasonal, and points do not xfer anyhow. Alliance offers more choices.

If WN wants me to put my efforts into their rewards programs, they are going to have to offer more incentives with it, such as A-list/BS assigned seating, a FC section, or a lounge of some kind. Another interesting idea may be to exchange credits for merchandise, as Usairways Dividend miles does with their miles. Develop more of a RR credit "currency" value, outside of extra RR awards for comp. passes.

WN has a good program for infrequent fliers, but when you reach a certain level of frequent flying, the value rapidly diminishes. If and when WN goes international..at least trans North American..the value of RR for the extremely Frequent Flier will shoot up instantly.

russo

Although it might be of little value to some, the Companion Pass is definitely a nice benefit to those who might be flying with their significant others.

lougord99

Obviously said by someone who does not pay for their own ticket. IMHO, those who pay for their own ticket do not choose an airline based upon a FF program. That is simply a nice side benefit. Free first class and free overseas travel would be wonderful, but they have no bearing on which airline I choose.

pinworm

USAirways usually matches or beats WN fares these days. Jet Blue and Virgin as well...and their programs offer much more than WN RR.

But the average working class peon who cannot afford tickets of their own more than a few times a year can certainly benefit from WN RR, indeed.

As I said, FF flyers are almost always corporate and do not pay for their own fares..but they get to collect the rewards personally. That's my point. A List cannot compete agressively for those markets.

Ma and Pa Kettle on the otherhand, are unlikely to even collect an RR ticket with their once-every-2-years flights.

MKE Sam

Wow. Not sure if your arrogance and condescension are intended to be humorous, but your attitude comes off as a bit elitist, IMHO.

As a business traveler who flies 50 weeks per year, I prefer WN to the competition, and am thrilled about Milwaukee service starting this week. From the well organized boarding process to no-cost refares, I find them much more convenient for frequent travelers.

I have been unimpressed with both United’s RCC and the Delta Sky Club, and would rather sit in the comfortable chairs with accessible power outlets near a WN gate. Many of the things you request (F class cabin, assigned seating, lounge access, and a merchandise catalog) cost money to implement and operate, and are ultimately a distraction from WN’s core competency of efficiently moving passengers and cargo around the country.

Best of luck with the legacies.

pinworm

If you fly that much, you should seriously run the numbers for other programs. Club Access is much nicer than cushy chairs in the main terminal. So are showers during your layovers, free food (as opposed to the Burger King fast food) and so forth.

Boarding in First or Business is much better than the lightest day on WN, and the ability to pick your own seat when you go online and purchase your tic allows you to have a shot at more comfortable seating. On WN, even BS and A listers can lose out to thru-pax.

RR only gets you so much, and if you are an extreme FF, you can be getting way more than A list offers.

Elitist? I was trying to be sarcastic. But here is the thing about weekly travel, although I am sure I do not have to explain this to you at 100 flights a year...the crowds of infrequent fliers..the confused, the drunk, the overweight, the terrified, and the babies...can be tolerable if you fly a few times a year..but weekly exposure becomes a problem very quickly and impacts the quality of life and work.

Comfort then becomes very very important. There is no sin in luxury offered as a reward for repeat business. It's not that I am "better" than the throngs, it is that I qualify for extra services not offered by WN.

Democratic, proletarian, and egalitarian ideals are very noble until fatty bombatty gets her muffin top in your lap for 3 hours. Twice a week.

WN is in need of revenue generating marketing concepts because their model is becoming obsolete and fuel hedges will soon be gone. EBCI was such an attempt. But investing in lounges, a fc section, or currency miles/credits might actually generate it by offering incentives to people like us who have 100 flights a year to book. I spend upwards of 40k flying around the country..if WN could loop FF people away from other programs, it might pay for itself.

lougord99

We all believe that we are not unique or unusual. I believe that there is a significant number of us who fly very regularly and pay for our own tickets. Based upon the number of people who look like business travelers that I see on WN, which is not significantly less than I see on US ( my second most used airline ), I think that there are many in my position - regular business travelers who find WN the best airline for them.

I have no concerns about what RR 2.0 will bring, because I am really not all that much concerned about what RR 1.0 does or does not do. WN works for me because of price and flexibility and any side benefits of a RR program are simply a plus.

lougord99

Unfortunately, I agree with you here. WN is no longer necessarily the low cost provider, and so is becoming less a part of my airline mix. The problem is that as it becomes more and more like a legacy, it is less and less my airline.

swag

I completely disagree. I think WN is a dreadful program for infrequent fliers. Problem one is that credits expire after 24 months. On most other carriers, miles don't expire as long as the account is kept active. An infrequent flier who takes 3 roundtrips/year, 1000 miles each way, earns a free trip in just over 4 years.

Compare that to Southwest. Without partner credits, our hypothetical flier might well never earn a free ticket, (perpetually having 12 credits, as old ones expire as new ones are earned).

Problem two is that once earned, the rewards are issued automatically and also expire. Now that WN has capacity controls on awards, the infrequent traveler may have trouble using it before expiration. Again, the legacy airlines would allow the award to be used years after it is earned.

For the trip-a-month traveler, WN may work well, but for the infrequent traveler, a legacy is a better choice.

Beckles

The greatest luxury for me in airline travel is a non-stop flight, not first or business class. I will take a non-stop flight on any US carrier over first or business with a connection on another carrier. FF program is my third criteria when I buy a ticket, whether for work or personal use, the first two are price and schedule (which it is very hard for a connecting flights on any airline to beat a non-stop flight on another airline). In Kansas City this means I usually fly Southwest because they have the most flights of any airline to the most destinations non-stop, which means even if I connect on them they often offer a better schedule.

This is a joke, right? How much cheese and pretzels can you stand to eat? I don't mind nibbling on some of the offersings in airline clubs in the US, but Burger King is a meal, the food offered in most airline clubs in the US definitely is not. If I need to eat a meal, I go to Burger King or some other restaurant, even in an airport where I have lounge access.


This is complete nonsense. WN is buying hedges all the time, and the only reason they will "be gone" is if and when they decide to stop purchasing them. Beyond that incorrect statement, what other basis is there for stating their "model is obsolete"?

irabk

Compared to the miserable attitude of the employees at DeltaUSAirUnitedEct, the twisted gotcha rules and regulations, and the hoops to claim a reward ticket, I'll take the friendly SWA employees, simple, clear rules, and usually available awards (and the incomparable Companion Pass) any time.

Thanks for leaving me your seat.

radioinsomnia

^^^

NeilGoBlue

I travel 20+ times a year, all leisure, most with my wife. Her companion pass saves me thousands of dollars.

Don't underestimate the benefit of the companion pass.

ronbo83

I have a Priority Pass, don't need WN to give me lounges, I will leech off the legacy ones! I have never seen food at a lounge that would substitute for a meal nor have time to shower (since I always fly direct), but I could see how those items may have value to some.

As for points and usage, my coworker flies CO only and I fly WN only and we were comparing notes last week. We mainly fly the same amount (80+ segments per year), I have a CP and he is a Gold Elite. He has about 100K miles and I have about 94 RRs. So he can fly 4 domestic rounds or maybe a trip or two accross the pond and I can fly about 6 domestic rounds and no where else. The difference to me is that when we fly with our wives, he really only has 2 domestic rounds (2 awards per trip) and I have a full 6 (1 award per trip, use CP for wife). His other problem is that he flies a lot of routes that CO has switched to Embraers with no first class.

I think it really depends on your situation in the end. It sounds like legacy carriers are better for you so enjoy them. I still perfer WN for the close in airports, no change fees, and CP system. I do wish they would change the international situation and I think in time they will. Until then I will just keep having to apply for 3 AA credit cards per year (now going for 4 years straight) and flying to Europe in First Class for free . I know, I know, life is unfair!

ronbo83

We have saved about $3000 since July with the CP!! I keep a spreadsheet with the price I paid or the going rate if I used an award to keep track of this. That is real money that we would have paid to travel. It also encourages us to go more places and see our friends as often as we would like.

I still cannot believe how easy it is to use the CP as well. I have never had one problem getting a CP ticket. If I am able to book a flight for myself, I have always been able to book the CP too.