I realized there are some different terms for uppder deck classed in SkyTeam.

Could you please explain me the difference between

World Business Class
and
First Class or BusinessFirst

Is the first term used for business class and the latter for first class or are both terms used for business class? I am talking about transcontinental flights (e.g. from USA to Asia).

WBC is the J product offered by NorthWest.
BusinessFirst is the J product offered by Continental.
First Class and Business Class are both offered by Korean and Air France.

You appear to be referencing TransPac flights (transcon is NYC-LAX or something similar to that).

Basically, only AF and KE offer actual F seats/service on flights, so if you are flying on one of those you can potentially get F service. Otherwise it is J, no matter what they are calling it.

The one semi-exception to this rule is that if you are booking a RTW reward and want to fly in the CO BusinessFirst seats, you need to buy a F reward (at least from CO). It is a scam any way you slice it, but they make the rules.

S.

Also, DL has several different terms for the front cabin... Business Elite (BE) for the premium trans-Atlantic, deep South America and ATL-NRT. This is a full J seat and service on 767s and 777s. Then almost any international flight to Mexico, Central and upper South America will be called Business Class, but the cabin and service are the same as US domestic First Class.

If I understand it right, there is only with Air France and Korean Air a real first class.


When it says between Europe and Asia:
Standard Roundtrip Economy Class 60,000
Standard Roundtrip Business Class 100,000
Standard Roundtrip First Class/BusinessFirst 120,000

Is the latter award in first class with either Air France or Korean Air possible? Which airline offers the better product?


When it says between USA and Europe:
Standard Roundtrip Economy Class 50,000
Standard Roundtrip Business Class 80,000
Standard Roundtrip First Class/BusinessFirst 100,000

Is the latter award in first class with Air France only possible?

No. You can no longer book AF F awards, and you cannot book KE F awards (not sure if you ever could.)

I would imagine KE offers the better product by far, from my extremely pleasant experiences with them in J on multiple long and short haul flights between the US, Australia/New Zealand, and Asia, as well as within Asia. I haven't ever been on an AF long-haul flight in any class, though the attitude of short-haul European J flight attendants was simply average.

Despite the fact that AF is obviously French, I think KE may actually beat them in wine selection! They've won multiple awards for their wine and for their food, and both are superb. Still looking forward to flying SQ in F sometime... KE is way up there, though, as is ICN (especially the lounges: everything you'd expect from an Asian lounge, great food and beverage selection�no need to buy dinner, it's all there! Free high-speed wireless; real high speed, as in at least a 10 - 20Mbps pipe into the facility, rather than the slow DSL or T1 connections you see most places.)

that's because South Korea is a very hi-tech country,IIRC is the most connected(internet-wise) country in the world!

This is only true for FF members of the SkyTeam US airlines (CO, DL & NW). Members of the other programs (at least AF/KLM, KE, etc.) CAN get AF first awards. DL used to be able to until about two years ago. CO and NW never could as members of SkyTeam (not sure about Continental when they were partners with AF a decade ago).

Alitalia members cannot book flights with Air France or Korean in First class. That means that both my favourite programs - Alitalia and Continental - do not offer such tickets.

I will most likely join Alitalia now because it is easier to obtain the gold membership (even though Continental would probably match me).

Note that CO BusinessFirst is a nice J class (better than NW/DL/KL), but is nowhere near F and IMO not worth the extra miles.

I both do and don't agree. I sprung for the extra points (not sure it was worth it in retrospect, considering other options) for the CO BF on my RTW reward because I wanted to fly non-stop from NYC to NRT. CO is the only SkyTeam partner that flies that. Really what I wanted was to get to GUM in only one stop, and in the best seats I could, and CO let me do that the easiest.

Of course, the flip side is that I basically gave away a bunch of points for that one flight. Would it have been worth it to fly NW via DTW instead? I just don't know.

S.

You could also have flown CO EWR-HNL-GUM instead of EWR-NRT-GUM. And even though it has the same seats, technically I don't think EWR-HNL would count as "BF" (probably just domestic first).

The HNL flights are considered BF for the upgrades/rewards. The only one which are not are the NRT-GUM flights on the 767s, but that is only effective since mid-August; previously they were not EUA-able.

But it wouldn't matter. Sadly, flights that are "First" class, even if just domestic F, are not included in the RTW J reward. There is a recent post in this forum about buying up from the J reward to domestic F on NW seats for $100/segment, but that wouldn't help me on CO.

I admit that I made a sacrifice to get the flights that I wanted in the seats that I wanted. I'm not (too) upset with myself for it. Besides, there are plenty more miles where those came from.....

S.

you would not spend the extra 20k on CDG-LAX return

Certainly not. In fact, in my opinion it is no better than DL and I prefer NW flat seats with AC power and a far superioir IFE!

I have made a few flights on KE J and just did one in F. Last year I took AF in F with both old and new seats. I ahve experienced AF J many time, but not been in their new J seats. I have seen them when I did fly a 777-300ER with new seats in F. My experience on KE F was with the old seat and between Japan and ICN. Given this, here are my observations:

Yes KE J is better than AF J but only if you can get the new seats. The old seat physically hurt my back (you can feel the metal bar in the middle of the seat pushing your back). As far as F, I was EXTREMELY disappointed. I know they serve Krug on all F flights except for Japan and China. I did not get the good Champagne but AF's champagne offering now is not worth mentioning.... The food was no better than a Y food offering 10 years ago on a US airline... The seat was OK, went almost flat and you can sleep in it, but nothing great.
And the major trouble with KE... They do not care to hydrate you. Wine in J never comes with the meal, is served in a tiny glass and the same is true for water. After meal service, the FAs disappear, and you never get offered any more drink.

AF's F service between IAH and CDG was superb. And it was also good on CDG-BLR.
AF is not always consistent, but overall I would prefer AF F over KE's. For J, I will take KE with the new seats, but NEVER with the old seats.