SkyTeam "benefits". Fact or Fiction
Jan 12, 2001, 7:10 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: NYC
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SkyTeam "benefits". Fact or Fiction
Have you ever actually looked at the list of "benefits" you get from the SkyTeam alliance?
#1 -- Earn miles toward elite status on your preferred SkyTeam airline and redeem on any member airline
We already had this when DL was with SwissAir and Sabena. What's the benefit?
#2 -- Have complimentary access to most of our 265 member lounges worldwide
The fine print says "Complimentary access to member airline lounges when you are an International First, Business Class or SkyTeam Elite Plus frequent flyer on same day of travel". How many lounges do we now have access to that we didn't have before?
Also, it's worth noting that with both OneWorld and Star Alliance, all SECOND tier fliers (50,000 miles/year) get to use the lounges, while on SkyTeam, only top tier have access.
#3 -- Obtain a guaranteed reservation if you are a SkyTeam Elite Plus member even if your flight is sold-out
This actually might qualify as a benefit. I'd love to see some numbers on how often it gets used.
#4 -- Enjoy a choice of 6,402 flights to 451 destinations worldwide
What does this mean? I couldn't fly these airlines before the alliance existed? If I ignore the alliance and just fly the best route on any given day, I've got a choice of far more flights and destinations...
#5 -- Receive more fare options to more destinations
I don't get this one either.
#6 -- Connect through our extensive worldwide hub network
More chances to CONNECT? Just what I've always wanted. More time in airports.
#7 -- Get standardized SkyTeam procedures for your convenience
As evidenced by other posts on this board, this simply doesn't work. AF agents won't recognise SkyTeam passengers. DL ticket agents at SMS don't know about intra-Europe flights. They still advise passengers to show up at CDG 90+ minutes before departure for intra-Europe flights, despite the fact that CDG check-in for these flights is never open more than 60 minutes ahead of the flight, and sometimes not until 30-40 minutes before the flight.
#8 -- Ease your SkyTeam connecting flights with single check-in
I flew JFK->ZRH->CDG->AMS->JFK a few months ago, and the DL agent in JFK couldn't check me in for the ZRH->CDG on AF. Similarly, the AF agent in CDG couldn't check me in for my AMS->JFK leg on DL.
#9 -- Make travel arrangements and get information at any of SkyTeam's 659 ticket offices worldwide
This one is understating the truth. I can get the same information and make arrangements at ANY airlines ticket offices or any travel agent.
#10 -- Experience in-flight service built around your needs
I'm not even going to comment on this one.
So, of the 10 benefits, how many are really benefits from the alliance? I'd say the guaranteed full-fare coach seat. But that's about it...
#1 -- Earn miles toward elite status on your preferred SkyTeam airline and redeem on any member airline
We already had this when DL was with SwissAir and Sabena. What's the benefit?
#2 -- Have complimentary access to most of our 265 member lounges worldwide
The fine print says "Complimentary access to member airline lounges when you are an International First, Business Class or SkyTeam Elite Plus frequent flyer on same day of travel". How many lounges do we now have access to that we didn't have before?
Also, it's worth noting that with both OneWorld and Star Alliance, all SECOND tier fliers (50,000 miles/year) get to use the lounges, while on SkyTeam, only top tier have access.
#3 -- Obtain a guaranteed reservation if you are a SkyTeam Elite Plus member even if your flight is sold-out
This actually might qualify as a benefit. I'd love to see some numbers on how often it gets used.
#4 -- Enjoy a choice of 6,402 flights to 451 destinations worldwide
What does this mean? I couldn't fly these airlines before the alliance existed? If I ignore the alliance and just fly the best route on any given day, I've got a choice of far more flights and destinations...
#5 -- Receive more fare options to more destinations
I don't get this one either.
#6 -- Connect through our extensive worldwide hub network
More chances to CONNECT? Just what I've always wanted. More time in airports.
#7 -- Get standardized SkyTeam procedures for your convenience
As evidenced by other posts on this board, this simply doesn't work. AF agents won't recognise SkyTeam passengers. DL ticket agents at SMS don't know about intra-Europe flights. They still advise passengers to show up at CDG 90+ minutes before departure for intra-Europe flights, despite the fact that CDG check-in for these flights is never open more than 60 minutes ahead of the flight, and sometimes not until 30-40 minutes before the flight.
#8 -- Ease your SkyTeam connecting flights with single check-in
I flew JFK->ZRH->CDG->AMS->JFK a few months ago, and the DL agent in JFK couldn't check me in for the ZRH->CDG on AF. Similarly, the AF agent in CDG couldn't check me in for my AMS->JFK leg on DL.
#9 -- Make travel arrangements and get information at any of SkyTeam's 659 ticket offices worldwide
This one is understating the truth. I can get the same information and make arrangements at ANY airlines ticket offices or any travel agent.
#10 -- Experience in-flight service built around your needs
I'm not even going to comment on this one.
So, of the 10 benefits, how many are really benefits from the alliance? I'd say the guaranteed full-fare coach seat. But that's about it...
Jan 12, 2001, 7:17 am
#2
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2000
Programs: DL FO, Marriott Gold, SPG Gold
Posts: 12,003
2 Many Miles, you should post this issue as a question on the DL chat on 1/18. Let's get their biased reaction to cold hard facts. This isn't an alliance worth investing any miles in.
Jan 12, 2001, 10:40 am
#3
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: New York City
Posts: 3,507
Plus AF Frequnce Plus top-tier members receive top-tier Sky Team Elite Plus status. Non-French residents can qualify for this status with 40K miles. DL Gold Medallions receive Sky Team Elite status and fly more ...
Not that it means anything - see the other thread and you'll see that AF does not honor too many of those Sky Team benefits. It's a far cry from oneworld and Star who have trained all their employees to recognise Star Gold, oneworld Emerald etc. and their respective perks. However, I'm sure DL does honor AF Sky Team Elites et al and I would bet that AM and KE would probaly treat DL Elites better than AF.
Not that it means anything - see the other thread and you'll see that AF does not honor too many of those Sky Team benefits. It's a far cry from oneworld and Star who have trained all their employees to recognise Star Gold, oneworld Emerald etc. and their respective perks. However, I'm sure DL does honor AF Sky Team Elites et al and I would bet that AM and KE would probaly treat DL Elites better than AF.
Jan 12, 2001, 10:50 am
#4
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: ATL - DL DM/3MM - HH Lifetime Diamond - Marriott Lifetime Plat
Posts: 3,117
I tried to book award travel to Budapest on Delta. It cannot be done even though AF flies to BUD, it is not part of the partnership. I had to book an AF award and fly AF metal.
I booked an award to Italy for this year. 1 of the segments will be on AF, 1st class is not available. I asked to get put on the wait list...it cannot be done, AF will not allow Delta awards to be put on wait lists.
An AF award must be ticketed within 2 weeks of booking, Delta will give a lot of leeway on there bookings.
There are many roadblocks in this "partnership"
I booked an award to Italy for this year. 1 of the segments will be on AF, 1st class is not available. I asked to get put on the wait list...it cannot be done, AF will not allow Delta awards to be put on wait lists.
An AF award must be ticketed within 2 weeks of booking, Delta will give a lot of leeway on there bookings.
There are many roadblocks in this "partnership"
Jan 12, 2001, 11:50 am
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: NYC
Programs: UA/1K, DL/PM, AA/PLT, NW/SLV; SW/PLT, HH/DIA
Posts: 1,732
I'm not going to be around for the chat on the 18th -- I'll be flying (on American, my current favorite airline) to Las Vegas for dinner with friends at one of my my favorite restaurants.
But anyone else who wants to use my analysis is welcome to plagerise.
Personally, I've basically given up on DL. When I get my new back of SWU's, I'll have 12 -- 6 old and 6 new. They are the only reason I'll fly DL this year. But my AA SWU's are worth far more -- no capacity controls and valid from any published fare.
But anyone else who wants to use my analysis is welcome to plagerise.
Personally, I've basically given up on DL. When I get my new back of SWU's, I'll have 12 -- 6 old and 6 new. They are the only reason I'll fly DL this year. But my AA SWU's are worth far more -- no capacity controls and valid from any published fare.
Jan 12, 2001, 1:01 pm
#6
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: AUS
Programs: DL Flying Colonel
Posts: 4,023
Originally posted by 2 Many Miles:
Have you ever actually looked at the list of "benefits" you get from the SkyTeam alliance?
#2 -- Have complimentary access to most of our 265 member lounges worldwide
The fine print says "Complimentary access to member airline lounges when you are an International First, Business Class or SkyTeam Elite Plus frequent flyer on same day of travel". How many lounges do we now have access to that we didn't have before?
#3 -- Obtain a guaranteed reservation if you are a SkyTeam Elite Plus member even if your flight is sold-out
This actually might qualify as a benefit. I'd love to see some numbers on how often it gets used.
#6 -- Connect through our extensive worldwide hub network
As evidenced by other posts on this board, this simply doesn't work. AF agents won't recognise SkyTeam passengers. DL ticket agents at SMS don't know about intra-Europe flights. They still advise passengers to show up at CDG 90+ minutes before departure for intra-Europe flights, despite the fact that CDG check-in for these flights is never open more than 60 minutes ahead of the flight, and sometimes not until 30-40 minutes before the flight.
Have you ever actually looked at the list of "benefits" you get from the SkyTeam alliance?
#2 -- Have complimentary access to most of our 265 member lounges worldwide
The fine print says "Complimentary access to member airline lounges when you are an International First, Business Class or SkyTeam Elite Plus frequent flyer on same day of travel". How many lounges do we now have access to that we didn't have before?
#3 -- Obtain a guaranteed reservation if you are a SkyTeam Elite Plus member even if your flight is sold-out
This actually might qualify as a benefit. I'd love to see some numbers on how often it gets used.
#6 -- Connect through our extensive worldwide hub network
As evidenced by other posts on this board, this simply doesn't work. AF agents won't recognise SkyTeam passengers. DL ticket agents at SMS don't know about intra-Europe flights. They still advise passengers to show up at CDG 90+ minutes before departure for intra-Europe flights, despite the fact that CDG check-in for these flights is never open more than 60 minutes ahead of the flight, and sometimes not until 30-40 minutes before the flight.
3. This is a nice feature and I used it a few months ago. It is a full Y and it really hurts (it seemed to be the most expensive Y I have ever had.) The reservation agent at DL told me there was no such feature, a second call and all was in hand. However, CO has this feature as well.
6. Hah!!!! I can not get to places I need to go in Europe that I used to when Sabena and Austrian were member.
In the end of the day, DL is the bottom of the pile as far as alliances go and with their new good business program I am glad to be gone.
Jan 12, 2001, 1:37 pm
#8
Moderator: Coupon Connection & S.P.A.M
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Louisville, KY
Programs: Destination Unknown, TSA Disparager Diamond (LTDD)
Posts: 57,955
Check out what you get as a paid member of United's Red Carpet Club:
Red Carpet Club
The Red Carpet Club is United's® network of airport lounges for frequent flyers—places to work or rest away from the busy atmosphere of the terminal.
Features and privileges
Reciprocal clubroom privileges are extended to Red Carpet Club members when traveling on our Star Alliance partners and our code-share partners:
Air Canada (Maple Leaf Club)
Air New Zealand (Koru Club within New Zealand and International Lounges outside of New Zealand; excludes the F/C Lounge in Auckland)
All Nippon Airways (Club ANA and Sky Lounges)
Ansett (Golden Wing Club)
Austrian Airlines (Lufthansa's Frequent Traveller and Business Lounges)
British Midland (Diamond Club)
Lauda Air (Lufthansa's Frequent Traveller and Business Lounges)
Lufthansa (Senator Lounges, excluding Hamburg and Stuttgart; Frequent Traveler Lounges; Business Lounges)
Mexicana (Executive Lounges)
SAS (Scandinavian and Business Lounge)
Singapore Airlines (Silver Kris - Raffles Class)
THAI (Royal Executive Lounge and Royal Orchid Lounges)
Tyrolean Airways (Lufthansa's Frequent Traveller and Business Lounges)
VARIG (First Class Lounges, excluding Buenos Aires, Rio De Janeiro, and Sao Paulo; Business Class Lounges)
British Midland (Diamond Club)
What do you get as a paid CRC member of Sk***am? Directions to Chili's. Or whatever the world-wide equivalent is. Alliance? What a #$%^ing joke. CO/NW allows members to buy a day pass to their partners' lounges. OneWorld's policy is the same as SK***am's. What a shame.
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Time..... is on my side.
Red Carpet Club
The Red Carpet Club is United's® network of airport lounges for frequent flyers—places to work or rest away from the busy atmosphere of the terminal.
Features and privileges
Reciprocal clubroom privileges are extended to Red Carpet Club members when traveling on our Star Alliance partners and our code-share partners:
Air Canada (Maple Leaf Club)
Air New Zealand (Koru Club within New Zealand and International Lounges outside of New Zealand; excludes the F/C Lounge in Auckland)
All Nippon Airways (Club ANA and Sky Lounges)
Ansett (Golden Wing Club)
Austrian Airlines (Lufthansa's Frequent Traveller and Business Lounges)
British Midland (Diamond Club)
Lauda Air (Lufthansa's Frequent Traveller and Business Lounges)
Lufthansa (Senator Lounges, excluding Hamburg and Stuttgart; Frequent Traveler Lounges; Business Lounges)
Mexicana (Executive Lounges)
SAS (Scandinavian and Business Lounge)
Singapore Airlines (Silver Kris - Raffles Class)
THAI (Royal Executive Lounge and Royal Orchid Lounges)
Tyrolean Airways (Lufthansa's Frequent Traveller and Business Lounges)
VARIG (First Class Lounges, excluding Buenos Aires, Rio De Janeiro, and Sao Paulo; Business Class Lounges)
British Midland (Diamond Club)
What do you get as a paid CRC member of Sk***am? Directions to Chili's. Or whatever the world-wide equivalent is. Alliance? What a #$%^ing joke. CO/NW allows members to buy a day pass to their partners' lounges. OneWorld's policy is the same as SK***am's. What a shame.
Originally posted by 2 Many Miles:
#2 -- Have complimentary access to most of our 265 member lounges worldwide
#2 -- Have complimentary access to most of our 265 member lounges worldwide
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Time..... is on my side.
Jan 12, 2001, 2:12 pm
#9
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,960
Another *A benefit for UA Premium Execs (equivalent to DL's GM) is that if you are traveling international on any *A partner, you have access to lounge belonging to the partner and UA's international and domestic Red Carpet Rooms upon presentation of a same day international tkt and your PremExec card. You need not be travelng in business or first class to gain access to these lounges!
Of course there are trade-offs: if you drink, United's domestic RCCs charge for alcoholic beverages.
Of course there are trade-offs: if you drink, United's domestic RCCs charge for alcoholic beverages.
Jan 12, 2001, 2:49 pm
#10
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Homebase now CGN but still SK EBG & DL Plat.
Posts: 102
Spiff
be carefull with that listing about RedCarpet Club Members getting access to *A Lounges.
The listing on the web is not correct, for example SAS Scandinavian is not allowed, LH Senator is not allowed and so on.
You usualy get access to the business class lounge of the *A line you fly with.
---
SMS
be carefull with that listing about RedCarpet Club Members getting access to *A Lounges.
The listing on the web is not correct, for example SAS Scandinavian is not allowed, LH Senator is not allowed and so on.
You usualy get access to the business class lounge of the *A line you fly with.
---
SMS
Jan 12, 2001, 3:25 pm
#12
Moderator: Coupon Connection & S.P.A.M
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Louisville, KY
Programs: Destination Unknown, TSA Disparager Diamond (LTDD)
Posts: 57,955
What idiots. Your full Y fare is going to be worth a boatload more than whatever denied boarding compensation they might have to pay someone, especially since international denied boarding compensation is often a pittance compared to domestic.
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Time..... is on my side.
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Time..... is on my side.
Jan 12, 2001, 4:13 pm
#13
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: AUS
Programs: DL Flying Colonel
Posts: 4,023
Originally posted by hfly:
I have been told by AF taht there is no way to get a confirmed seat on a sold out flight even if I bought a full Y and that Skyteam didn't make any difference!
I have been told by AF taht there is no way to get a confirmed seat on a sold out flight even if I bought a full Y and that Skyteam didn't make any difference!
Jan 13, 2001, 9:22 am
#14
Moderator: Coupon Connection & S.P.A.M
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Louisville, KY
Programs: Destination Unknown, TSA Disparager Diamond (LTDD)
Posts: 57,955
Let's examine the "Standardized SkyTeam Procedures:
SkyMiles Member: "Hello, I'd like...."
AF: "No."
SMM: "But I'm elite on Delta so..."
AF: "No."
SMM: "I thought we were one big happy..."
AF: "No."
So you see, there really ARE "Standard SkyTeam Procedures" in place.
------------------
"Sire, it is not a revolt. It is a Revolution!"
SkyMiles Member: "Hello, I'd like...."
AF: "No."
SMM: "But I'm elite on Delta so..."
AF: "No."
SMM: "I thought we were one big happy..."
AF: "No."
So you see, there really ARE "Standard SkyTeam Procedures" in place.
Originally posted by 2 Many Miles:
#7 -- Get standardized SkyTeam procedures for your convenience
As evidenced by other posts on this board, this simply doesn't work. AF agents won't recognise SkyTeam passengers. DL ticket agents at SMS don't know about intra-Europe flights. They still advise passengers to show up at CDG 90+ minutes before departure for intra-Europe flights, despite the fact that CDG check-in for these flights is never open more than 60 minutes ahead of the flight, and sometimes not until 30-40 minutes before the flight.
#7 -- Get standardized SkyTeam procedures for your convenience
As evidenced by other posts on this board, this simply doesn't work. AF agents won't recognise SkyTeam passengers. DL ticket agents at SMS don't know about intra-Europe flights. They still advise passengers to show up at CDG 90+ minutes before departure for intra-Europe flights, despite the fact that CDG check-in for these flights is never open more than 60 minutes ahead of the flight, and sometimes not until 30-40 minutes before the flight.
------------------
"Sire, it is not a revolt. It is a Revolution!"
Jan 13, 2001, 10:50 am
#15
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2000
Programs: DL FO, Marriott Gold, SPG Gold
Posts: 12,003
Uncle Leo: "No"
Vicki Escarra: "No"
Patrice Miles: "No"
Kevin Pinto: We reply to "NO" on a one to one basis.
"Simply Good Business"
http://www.saveskymiles.com/
1,554,156,321 Total SkyMiles Represented
326 SkyMiles members
893 Silver Medallion members
1,159 Gold Medallion members
376 Platinum Medallion members
2,754 Total
564,327 Avg. Miles per member
Vicki Escarra: "No"
Patrice Miles: "No"
Kevin Pinto: We reply to "NO" on a one to one basis.
"Simply Good Business"
http://www.saveskymiles.com/
1,554,156,321 Total SkyMiles Represented
326 SkyMiles members
893 Silver Medallion members
1,159 Gold Medallion members
376 Platinum Medallion members
2,754 Total
564,327 Avg. Miles per member