Problem at Paris Airport- Air France and Delta
Dec 21, 2004, 12:18 pm
#1
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Problem at Paris Airport- Air France and Delta
Yesterday I flew First Class from Budapest to Paris CDG on Air France and then changed to Delta BuisnessElite to Atlanta. AF computers in Budapest were not working.
On arriving in Paris, AF told me that they could not issue a Delta ticket and I needed to go to the DL terminal and then AF security told me that I could not go to the DL terminal with out a ticket! (I thought that I might end up like Tom Hank's character in Terminal).
What really pissed me off was that the AF security person was shouting at me in fast french. I don't speak French, but got the meaning. I told her that she needed to learn how to speak English (not the most diplomatic thing to say - but she did not appear to understand English). She then started SCREAMING at me in pretty good English.
Moral of the story:
1. In Paris CDG you are in enemy territory. You are on your own.
2. Avoid France and the French.
3. If I was flying coach, I'd probably still be there.
On arriving in Paris, AF told me that they could not issue a Delta ticket and I needed to go to the DL terminal and then AF security told me that I could not go to the DL terminal with out a ticket! (I thought that I might end up like Tom Hank's character in Terminal).
What really pissed me off was that the AF security person was shouting at me in fast french. I don't speak French, but got the meaning. I told her that she needed to learn how to speak English (not the most diplomatic thing to say - but she did not appear to understand English). She then started SCREAMING at me in pretty good English.
Moral of the story:
1. In Paris CDG you are in enemy territory. You are on your own.
2. Avoid France and the French.
3. If I was flying coach, I'd probably still be there.
Dec 21, 2004, 4:13 pm
#2
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Originally Posted by mf1949
1. In Paris CDG you are in enemy territory. You are on your own.
2. Avoid France and the French.
.
2. Avoid France and the French.
.
Dec 21, 2004, 4:26 pm
#3
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Originally Posted by mf1949
Yesterday I flew First Class from Budapest to Paris CDG on Air France and then changed to Delta BuisnessElite to Atlanta. AF computers in Budapest were not working.
Welcome to FT.
I did not realize that AF flew BUD-CDG with a first class.
The "computer not working" game has been perfected by UA/LH, and saves them millions of dollars.
Dec 21, 2004, 10:18 pm
#4
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AF do not offer first class within Europe.
The security agent did not have to speak to you in English. I'll mail you a cheque for 10 Euros if next time you go through a US airport you find a TSA employee who speaks French.
And I can't really blame them for losing their temper when you attempted to lecture them instead of trying to work with them towards an acceptable solution of your problem.
The security agent did not have to speak to you in English. I'll mail you a cheque for 10 Euros if next time you go through a US airport you find a TSA employee who speaks French.
And I can't really blame them for losing their temper when you attempted to lecture them instead of trying to work with them towards an acceptable solution of your problem.
Dec 22, 2004, 10:10 am
#5
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it sounds like the OP was trying to do an airside transfer without an onward boarding pass.
The obvious solution would be to clear immigration and go landside to Delta's ticket desk at CDG 2C.
One always is more likely to get assistance if one uses pleasant speaking tones (regardless of the language). Employees prefer to assist those who won't insult them.
The obvious solution would be to clear immigration and go landside to Delta's ticket desk at CDG 2C.
One always is more likely to get assistance if one uses pleasant speaking tones (regardless of the language). Employees prefer to assist those who won't insult them.
Dec 22, 2004, 2:40 pm
#6
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Originally Posted by graraps
I'll mail you a cheque for 10 Euros if next time you go through a US airport you find a TSA employee who speaks French.
We've got plenty of Haitian immigrants doing all sorts of things around NY, inlcuding working for the TSA at JFK.
But I'm with you in the principle. ^
-R
Dec 22, 2004, 3:16 pm
#7
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On second thought....
Thinking more about this, I'd like to add 2 or 3 more cents.
I have spent my life with one foot firmly on each side of the Atlantic, and this is the one issue that seems to take up an inordinate amount of time/dialog compared to it's importance, but here goes.
"Welcome to France, where the customer is always wrong"
Let's admit it folks, the French have never embraced the concept of customer service. Nor do they seem anxious to do so. (I would even go so far as to say that the french see the American phrase "Have a Nice Day" as disingenuous and silly.)
CDG is a perfect example, but there are thousands of others. I speak french fluently (though my friends say I mumble) and can understand and be understood in French perfectly. Yet I too have wanted to strangle people in CDG. Twice recently I read the monitors, went through the correct passport control areas to wait for my bags only to find that my bags were going to another carousel. I had to pass the Douane, wait on the security line again, go back in and go through passport control again to get to the other carousel, at each step being lectured about how I should have checked the monitors.
When I said I had, one young member of the fine border police actually called me a liar to my face.
Once, maybe I made a mistake... twice? nah. (I've since learned to hang back a while until the bags start moving.)
The person at the AF counter should have been more helpful. They should have thought it out with the OP and helped find the way to make it work instead of that little shrug, pfft sound and walking away that too often replaces helpfulness in France.
On the other hand, many people take pride in what they do as much as if not more in France than they do in the US. Helpfulness, when you find it, is genuine and substantial, not cosmetic.
Go to a bakery and the people can tell you all about the 16 different types of bread they make and what makes each special. Try that at pathmark.
Go to any lycee in Paris and ask some of the kids to compare the merits of a congressional vs. parliamentary democracy, and I bet they could. Try that at your local HS.
Go to a restaurant, any restaurant and ask the waiter what he recommends, what wine to drink with it, and how it's made.... try that at Red Lobster.
The point is that every society has different things that they care about and that they emphasize. Yours ain't no better than le mien.
In any case, mf1949, it's too bad that you had the experience that you did. I can see why you'd be frustrated and angry. But your conclusion is stupid, racist and ignorant.
Have a nice day.
-R
I have spent my life with one foot firmly on each side of the Atlantic, and this is the one issue that seems to take up an inordinate amount of time/dialog compared to it's importance, but here goes.
"Welcome to France, where the customer is always wrong"
Let's admit it folks, the French have never embraced the concept of customer service. Nor do they seem anxious to do so. (I would even go so far as to say that the french see the American phrase "Have a Nice Day" as disingenuous and silly.)
CDG is a perfect example, but there are thousands of others. I speak french fluently (though my friends say I mumble) and can understand and be understood in French perfectly. Yet I too have wanted to strangle people in CDG. Twice recently I read the monitors, went through the correct passport control areas to wait for my bags only to find that my bags were going to another carousel. I had to pass the Douane, wait on the security line again, go back in and go through passport control again to get to the other carousel, at each step being lectured about how I should have checked the monitors.
When I said I had, one young member of the fine border police actually called me a liar to my face.
Once, maybe I made a mistake... twice? nah. (I've since learned to hang back a while until the bags start moving.)
The person at the AF counter should have been more helpful. They should have thought it out with the OP and helped find the way to make it work instead of that little shrug, pfft sound and walking away that too often replaces helpfulness in France.
On the other hand, many people take pride in what they do as much as if not more in France than they do in the US. Helpfulness, when you find it, is genuine and substantial, not cosmetic.
Go to a bakery and the people can tell you all about the 16 different types of bread they make and what makes each special. Try that at pathmark.
Go to any lycee in Paris and ask some of the kids to compare the merits of a congressional vs. parliamentary democracy, and I bet they could. Try that at your local HS.
Go to a restaurant, any restaurant and ask the waiter what he recommends, what wine to drink with it, and how it's made.... try that at Red Lobster.
The point is that every society has different things that they care about and that they emphasize. Yours ain't no better than le mien.
In any case, mf1949, it's too bad that you had the experience that you did. I can see why you'd be frustrated and angry. But your conclusion is stupid, racist and ignorant.
Have a nice day.
-R
Dec 22, 2004, 6:31 pm
#8
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Remy, not to want to dump on some of your stereotypes, but......
As for the bread, can they tell you all that at Carrefour, L'Clerc, Casino and Champion? While the Americans created the Supermarket, the French are the KINGS of the "hypermarche"?? Afterall I believe that it is in these such establichments where the overwhelming majority of food and drink are sold in France. Yes establishments with even less character than the average US supermarket - hard to believe but true!
Go to that same lycee in many "suburbs" of Paris and you are likely to see teenage pregnancy, low test scores and probably the same likelihood of an answer as what you were implying from US "lycee" students. Then you could go a step further beyond lycee and see how many go on to further education. Last I looked it was something like 46% in the US vs. 8% for France.
To my knowledge there is not one Red Lobster within the city limits of the top 5 cities in the United States. Does the waiter at Quick Burger also have a wine to suggest?? (Then again he was "thinned out" in his education (see above) and is most probably a professional waiter, he may have even have done an "estage" in waitering and can look forward to 35 years of 35 hour work weeks for the rest of his life.
This is all a bit tongue in cheek, but the stereotypes of yesteryear do not always hold true anymore.
As for the bread, can they tell you all that at Carrefour, L'Clerc, Casino and Champion? While the Americans created the Supermarket, the French are the KINGS of the "hypermarche"?? Afterall I believe that it is in these such establichments where the overwhelming majority of food and drink are sold in France. Yes establishments with even less character than the average US supermarket - hard to believe but true!
Go to that same lycee in many "suburbs" of Paris and you are likely to see teenage pregnancy, low test scores and probably the same likelihood of an answer as what you were implying from US "lycee" students. Then you could go a step further beyond lycee and see how many go on to further education. Last I looked it was something like 46% in the US vs. 8% for France.
To my knowledge there is not one Red Lobster within the city limits of the top 5 cities in the United States. Does the waiter at Quick Burger also have a wine to suggest?? (Then again he was "thinned out" in his education (see above) and is most probably a professional waiter, he may have even have done an "estage" in waitering and can look forward to 35 years of 35 hour work weeks for the rest of his life.
This is all a bit tongue in cheek, but the stereotypes of yesteryear do not always hold true anymore.
Dec 22, 2004, 7:02 pm
#9
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: CHS
Posts: 7
CDG customer service
I too had the pleasure of making the aquaintance of CDG/AF customer service a few years back while flying from CVG to ATH via CDG. A friend and I were flying Delta (whose customer service ranks right up there with AF in my opinion) on a FF ticket and changed planes at CDG to AF for ATH.
The wonderful ticket agents at Delta that booked the flight only gave us a 45 minute layover in CDG which was under construction upon our arrival (sidenote...I was under the impression that int'l layovers had to be 2 hours???). We landed on time but it took us almost 45 minutes to get to the gate and get off the plane. By the time we got off the plane and through customs, we missed out flight...not that any of the CDG gate agents seemed to be the least bit concerned about when we got off the plane and expressed our concern. So after going through customs, we went to the AF desk and were greeted by a completely rude "customer service" agent. In my defense, I was completely professional and courteous as I worked in the travel industry at the time and understood that things like this happen. The agent proceeded to tell us that there wasn't another flight that day from CDG to ATH and that we would have to pay for accommodations for the evening until the flight the next day. I politely told him that I found it hard to believe that I couldn't get from CDG to ATH and wanted to speak with someone else that could assist me. I also said that furthermore if I was delayed for the evening, AF or Delta would be picking up the tab as it was due to them I missed the flight (again, I worked in the industry and knew all the international rules regarding this situation as I had to deal with them on a regular basis). He then proceeded to speak to a co-worker in French and make all sorts of very nasty comments towards me and my friend (all of which I understood as I didn't want to let on I spoke French). He was finally able to get us on a flight from CDG to LHR to ATH (how insane is that!) but we would have a 4 hour layover in CDG. I thanked him for his assistance, said that I understood everything he said to his co-worker and am sorry he finds his job and dealing with Americans to be such a grueling task. I also said that since we would be delayed it would be appreciated if AF would provided us with meal vouchers and perhaps he'd like to join us so that we'd have the opportunity to change his impression of Americans...all with a smile on my face of course. We did receive the vouchers (for the nice restaurant not fast food) but he didn't join us...thank goodness
Moral I guess would be...the French are rude (had some encounters with them on a recent trip to Egypt) but there's no need to lower your own standards. And, like Mama says "you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar."
The wonderful ticket agents at Delta that booked the flight only gave us a 45 minute layover in CDG which was under construction upon our arrival (sidenote...I was under the impression that int'l layovers had to be 2 hours???). We landed on time but it took us almost 45 minutes to get to the gate and get off the plane. By the time we got off the plane and through customs, we missed out flight...not that any of the CDG gate agents seemed to be the least bit concerned about when we got off the plane and expressed our concern. So after going through customs, we went to the AF desk and were greeted by a completely rude "customer service" agent. In my defense, I was completely professional and courteous as I worked in the travel industry at the time and understood that things like this happen. The agent proceeded to tell us that there wasn't another flight that day from CDG to ATH and that we would have to pay for accommodations for the evening until the flight the next day. I politely told him that I found it hard to believe that I couldn't get from CDG to ATH and wanted to speak with someone else that could assist me. I also said that furthermore if I was delayed for the evening, AF or Delta would be picking up the tab as it was due to them I missed the flight (again, I worked in the industry and knew all the international rules regarding this situation as I had to deal with them on a regular basis). He then proceeded to speak to a co-worker in French and make all sorts of very nasty comments towards me and my friend (all of which I understood as I didn't want to let on I spoke French). He was finally able to get us on a flight from CDG to LHR to ATH (how insane is that!) but we would have a 4 hour layover in CDG. I thanked him for his assistance, said that I understood everything he said to his co-worker and am sorry he finds his job and dealing with Americans to be such a grueling task. I also said that since we would be delayed it would be appreciated if AF would provided us with meal vouchers and perhaps he'd like to join us so that we'd have the opportunity to change his impression of Americans...all with a smile on my face of course. We did receive the vouchers (for the nice restaurant not fast food) but he didn't join us...thank goodness
Moral I guess would be...the French are rude (had some encounters with them on a recent trip to Egypt) but there's no need to lower your own standards. And, like Mama says "you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar."
Dec 22, 2004, 7:20 pm
#10
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Originally Posted by hfly
Remy, not to want to dump on some of your stereotypes, but......
Geez, H, shhhhh! I know that, and you know that but...
Seriously, though I know and agree with you that France is far from the ideal I'd like to imagine, but no farther than America is from my ideal of it.
(And as a side note, I should add that I do have very high standards and ideals of what America is and can and should be, since I didn't make that clear in my last post.)
I was just trying to make the point.
But back to yours, let me know the next time you come to NYC and I'll make a reservation for you at the Red Lobster on 41st and 7th, right in thelights of Times Square...
Dec 23, 2004, 3:08 am
#11
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Originally Posted by travelgirl67
Moral I guess would be...the French are rude (had some encounters with them on a recent trip to Egypt) but there's no need to lower your own standards. And, like Mama says "you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar."
Extending this observation to over 55 million people, whose standards you describe as "lower" is stretching it somewhat.
Dec 23, 2004, 6:10 am
#12
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Originally Posted by hfly
Remy, not to want to dump on some of your stereotypes, but......
Go to that same lycee in many "suburbs" of Paris and you are likely to see teenage pregnancy, low test scores and probably the same likelihood of an answer as what you were implying from US "lycee" students. Then you could go a step further beyond lycee and see how many go on to further education. Last I looked it was something like 46% in the US vs. 8% for France.
ftp://trf.education.gouv.fr/pub/edut...seignement.pdf
The figure they give is 51% (comparing well with USA 47%, but not that great compared to Belgium 63%).
Of course, maybe the one in charge of the statistic was French, therefore uneducated, and unable to count well
Dec 23, 2004, 6:28 am
#13
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Originally Posted by travelgirl67
The wonderful ticket agents at Delta that booked the flight only gave us a 45 minute layover in CDG which was under construction upon our arrival (sidenote...I was under the impression that int'l layovers had to be 2 hours???).
I do recall going through immigration the last time I transfered at CDG, but I think that is because I went the wrong way. I almost missed the flight, as the AF flight was only listed as an AZ flight, and I could not differentait between the French spelling of Venice and I guess, Verona. I do recall the agents at the transfer desk ( AF ) telling me to go to gate XX, but my flight was not there. Only some AZ plane going somewhere that I was not certain where was. Showed tickets to gate attendent and she shooed me onto the plane.
Feb 28, 2005, 3:45 pm
#14
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As a frequent traveler to Europe, mostly on CO and AF, but sometimes on LH, I wanted to weigh on this airport thing. I too have landed and transferred at CDG, and trust me, it is just like any other airport in the world. Crazy? Yes. Cramped? Yes. Confusing...more than normal...but par for the course.
Have you ever flown out of LHR? FRA? MIA? Those are right up there with CDG in terms of confusion. As for the customer service...try the crappy airport here in Houston called HOU. The terminals are poorly lighted, they stink, no lounges, and are inhabited by the pond scum that flies Southwest.
You want rude agents? Try and get a favor from the agents at HOU. A roll of the eyes and a smirk might eb the least of your worries. Same goes for DAL, OKC, LAS, and most certainly ORD.
A blanket comment on France is just not valid, especially these days. War in Iraq, Jaques Chirac, blah-blah-blah...don't give me that crap. Anti-French sentiment is high these days...but from my view, this extends to the current administration only, not the French people. If you travel to France thinking that they are rude....well...you ever heard of a "self-fulfilling prophecy?" Think if, in your work, you got a bunch of pushy Latin individuals yelling at you every minute in Spanish...would you be smiling and cheery all the time? I think not. The airline industry is not one with high customer service marks, with VERY few exceptions. You want service? Take a cruise on the QM-II. Want to get somewhere fast? Then fly and keep quiet. ^
Have you ever flown out of LHR? FRA? MIA? Those are right up there with CDG in terms of confusion. As for the customer service...try the crappy airport here in Houston called HOU. The terminals are poorly lighted, they stink, no lounges, and are inhabited by the pond scum that flies Southwest.
You want rude agents? Try and get a favor from the agents at HOU. A roll of the eyes and a smirk might eb the least of your worries. Same goes for DAL, OKC, LAS, and most certainly ORD.
A blanket comment on France is just not valid, especially these days. War in Iraq, Jaques Chirac, blah-blah-blah...don't give me that crap. Anti-French sentiment is high these days...but from my view, this extends to the current administration only, not the French people. If you travel to France thinking that they are rude....well...you ever heard of a "self-fulfilling prophecy?" Think if, in your work, you got a bunch of pushy Latin individuals yelling at you every minute in Spanish...would you be smiling and cheery all the time? I think not. The airline industry is not one with high customer service marks, with VERY few exceptions. You want service? Take a cruise on the QM-II. Want to get somewhere fast? Then fly and keep quiet. ^
Feb 28, 2005, 5:43 pm
#15
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Originally Posted by theblakefish
As a frequent traveler to Europe, mostly on CO and AF, but sometimes on LH, I wanted to weigh on this airport thing. I too have landed and transferred at CDG, and trust me, it is just like any other airport in the world. Crazy? Yes. Cramped? Yes. Confusing...more than normal...but par for the course.
Steve