andymo99

Has anyone else encountered a completely amateur operation at CAN under such circumstances. I'm transiting here after KQ flight from BKK and continuing to LAX on CZ.

CZ disclaims any semblance of a relationship with KQ. It turns out that, despite, the bags being tagged from BKK-CAN-LAX-SEA, they can't transfer the bags without someone going to the carousel with our claim checks, picking up the bags, and routing them on to CZ. They explained that since it is a "different company" this is how it has to work.

The worst part of all was the complete lack of explanation. Tons of conflicting info about where to go and what to do. "Sky Priority" line and a J ticket provided no help. Our passports and claim checks were taken with no explanation offered, and we were told to wait with two other pax going to SYD on 3 ancient chairs. No one could tell us what the story was.

Ultimately, after about 40 minutes and a lot of frustrated stonewalling from the staff in this transit area, someone returned with new boarding passes and new claim checks.

Really weird experience. And (once again) completely undermines the concept of a "seamless" "global" "alliance."

CZ metal TPAC in J usually has decent availability, but this is a definite watchout for the future.

Jaimito Cartero

There have been a lot of threads about transiting to an international flight, out of China. I have only heard of problems, so far.

mcjava

Welcome to China! Where published rules and regulations are sometimes indicative of how things really work. And sometimes not indicative.

As you had the bags tagged all the way through, at what point did this issue even come up? Did you have to get CZ boarding passes at the transit desk and they asked you for your bag tags? This used to happen to me a lot at Narita during international transits, IIRC AA liked to change the bag tags to their own, but of course they always explained things promptly and clearly to me, and it was never more than a few minutes before I was on my way. Certainly no going to a baggage carousel to do this.

HongKonger

It's China. Enough said.

DTWNate

I have traveled many times to Guangzhou on both DL and CZ metal. Alas, DL took it off the schedule. BE in CZ A380 from LAX is actually quite nice, despite the fact that FA's don't seem to know what Vodka is.

That said, I have learned that one is MUCH better off separating the TPAC leg on a different record from any intra-Asia flights. This helps with more reliable bag handling (although you have to claim and re-check luggage) as well as easier intra-Asia flight changes. You only have to have a CZ rep screw up your TPAC flight once to learn this lesson.

Most importantly, did you enjoy the dim sum and dumplings in CZ business lounge?

andymo99

The BKK check-in agents (outsourced working for KQ) couldn't print our CZ bp for CAN-LAX. The confusion started while on the KQ plane and they tried to explain the formalities for those connecting and terminating. It was unclear to say the least. And it got less clear as we moved on. We went to the transit desk, which is where they took our bag claim tickets AND passports and told us to sit... hardly any further explanation. Each time we questioned what was going on, the explanation was different. The bags WERE checked through to SEA, but they insisted that they would not be automatically transferred since we were on different airlines. They were very testy about this point. Especially frustrating was that the woman who went to find our bags did not ask for a description of them. We were told that she would literally be looking to match up the claim #s. The whole thing was weird, and marked by a total lack of information and communication. By the way, there was a native Chinese speaker being "detained" also, and ability to communicate in Chinese didn't seem to shed light on the circumstances either.


The A380 in J was outstanding. (Hard product that is, the FAs were indifferent to cold.) Almost made transiting CAN worth it. Almost. It is amazing what a night-and-day different product CZ features on TPAC flights to LAX vs. 777 to YVR. It is an entirely different experience.

Understood, but this was a single award ticket.

The lounge is indeed nice. I'd have preferred to spend the extra ~40 minutes in the lounge vs. in the decrepit holding area that we experienced.


All in all, this is one of those things where the first-world airlines in Skyteam ought to hold the laggards accountable for a "seamless" and "integrated" experience. There ought to be standards, and they ought to be enforced.

There was a day when the KE safety record was weak and DL engaged in pilot training. That needs to be replicated with ground handling with other airlines.

TProphet

This all sounds very normal for China actually and it is very similar to transiting the US. All bags arriving in China have to be cleared through Customs and the person who checked the bags generally has to clear them. This is why you had to stay put until your bags were found, cleared and re-checked. The claim tag number has to match because many bags can look alike. You should definitely want this procedure in place, so the shady guy smuggling heroin from Thailand with a bag that looks just like yours doesn't escape the death penalty because you attracted it instead!

Chinese service culture is a bit abrupt at times, especially if you do not speak Chinese (I usually prefer to start the conversation in English, using a few Chinese words to help things along if they get stuck). Normally you're told to wait and you are expected to quietly comply. If you ask how long, you'll be told "please wait a moment," but this could really be any length of time. However, things usually work out in the end, and it sounds to me like it actually did work out just fine and also in accordance with the Chinese laws and regulations. I fail to see how this was a "clusterf***" - you made your flight with your bags, and CZ followed applicable laws and regulations.

Finally, what does this have to do with Delta, exactly?

andymo99

No, this was NOT akin to transiting US where you need to re-check your bags through customs. In that case, YOU go and collect your bags and re-check them. In this case, a stranger runs off with your passport and claim checks and comes back and tells you that they took care of it.

No, because said stranger who ran off with your passports and claim checks could have put heroin in your bag at CAN. We never got to see our bags at CAN.


Very true.

Wrong again. It actually turns out that when CZ re-checked the bags, they checked them onto an AS flight number that does not exist. We were on AS 467. This is how KQ properly tagged our bags. However, CZ took the liberty of re-tagging the bags onto AS 471. So when we got to SEA, our bags did not get there with us.

No, our bags did not end up properly tagged by CZ. See above.


Wait, so applicable law and regulation indicates that CZ-CZ connection international-international at CAN means no need to sit in purgatory while a stranger runs off with your passport to find and (incorrectly) re-check your bags? But same applicable law and regulation indicates that KQ-CZ connection international-international at CAN means you DO need to sit while a stranger runs off with your passport to find and (incorrectly) re-check your bags? (To be clear, which I did not spell out earlier: the staff in this dungeon area told us that the need to find and re-check the bags arose because we were flying on two "totally different companies." Had we been on a CZ-CZ connection, they say we could have continued on our merry way as the transfer would happen automatically.)

That doesn't make sense and I doubt the Chinese law and regulation is written this way. But feel free to share it with me in the original, as I have plenty of colleagues who can translate for me.

It only has to do with Delta in that I am reporting on 2 Skyteam partners and a Delta redeemed award. While the "other Asian carriers" forum might be more appropriate, I posted here because I figured the information might be helpful to other DL flyers, this forum gets much more traction, and I assumed I would get some informed replies here (as I did). If you care to lobby for this thread to be moved elsewhere, simply click on "RBP" and request accordingly of the moderators. I am happy to abide by their verdict without complaint.

Best,
andymo99

mcjava

The only similar transit I have done is ANA Osaka to Beijing, Air China to Hong Kong (so a true intl-intl transit), with an ongoing BP and bags checked through to HKG.

None of the shenenigans you report. It's China, though, so in no way am I questioning your veracity!

hoth300

Now I'm getting a bit nervous for my upcoming DL award ticket, which includes HAN-(VN)-CAN-(CZ)-LAX-(DL)-JFK.

The layover in CAN is about 6.5 hours so there will be plenty of time to sort things out but I'd rather spend that time in the lounge.

Any experiences connecting from VN to CZ at CAN? Should I tell the VN agent at HAN to just tag my bag to CAN and just deal with it there? I'm flying in J... Anyone know if there will be an agent to greet me at CAN to help me transit?

andymo99

hoth300, given that you are intl-intl and non CZ to CZ, I reckon you should expect our exact experience.

With 6.5 hours, you have a ton of time. More than you would even want to spend in their nice lounge.

You would think they'd have an agent greeting you upon arrival in J, but they did not for us. (On our outbound, which was YVR-CAN-KTM, the flight from YVR was delayed and there was an agent greeting pax from certain flights. Ours was not included. So I said to the agent, "what about KTM?" She casually said, "Oh, cancelled!" Um... gee... you might want to include it on your little sign then!)

In any case, you should really enjoy the A380 product CAN-LAX. It will make up somewhat for the awful ground experience.

Do report back and let us know how it goes. Will be curious about your experience, and especially how they communicate with you as you undertake it.

[By the way, you likely will be best off only tagging your bag to CAN and then going to collect and re-check it. Of course, when we asked to go collect our bag rather than having this woman run off with our passports, we were told this was not an option because we don't have a visa. Nevermind that this made no sense whatsoever, especially due to TWOV privileges... just nod your head and go with it I guess, at least if TProphet is to be believed!]

AA_EXP09

This has also happened on a flight from NBO for one of my colleagues.
NBO-BKK-CAN was delayed, and this affected his KA CAN-HKG ticket.
KQ denied all responsibility, and KA cancelled the entire ticket (including the onward AC ticket.)
KA eventually agreed to transport the following day (and on CX HKG-YVR.)
Then KQ refused to provide hotel accommodations (CAN is your final destination, you get nothing more as you are now in CAN.)

andymo99

Wait, are you talking about two separate tickets, one terminating at CAN and the next starting at CAN?

That would be an entirely different story, and quite a typical resolution by the airline. It isn't their problem if you show up late because a prior (separately ticketed) flight was delayed.

PeteyNice

That was my experience. I flew LAX-CAN-TPE (CZ-CZ) in December. Transiting CAN was a breeze. They never asked about my checked bag at all. Just looked at my ticket and passport and waived me through.

andymo99

Yes, Petey, I was being tongue in cheek. It was the "applicable law and regulation" bit that I was questioning.

I flew YVR-CAN-KTM on CZ-CZ a couple weeks before, and also didn't have this silliness.