YuropFlyer

And everything above in one sentence:

Low crime doesn't mean no crime

invisible

You remind me couple of coworkers who were truly horrified when I told them that I am going to take bus from JB to Melaka, then to KL and finally fly to Penang and stay at one of Georgetown hostel:

"You will be mugged and robbed, look at the crimes happening in Singapore, my kid's bicycle got stolen, can you imagine that! In Malaysia it is WAY WAY WAY worse!"

They BTW do not go hiking for the same reason at McRitchie and Sungei Bulloh...

Type of crime matters - in the place where lived once common questions during the renting the place were "how many homicides using guns happened here last year" and "do you have folks dealing crack on streets"?

YuropFlyer

invisible, sorry if you got my post wrong. I was actually trying to both make fun of what BRITINJAPAN3 said (his words, basically, is that Singapore is a "dangerous place") and also about what the "official" saying in Singapore is (low crime doesn't mean no crime)

Of course there is crime in Singapore, however, I still have to find it

And I've also heard the people talking about how dangerous JB is.. ("they'll chop your arms off to grab your bag when driving past you" stories and the like)

I don't think Malaysia is in any particular dangerous (apart their driving) - at least not more dangerous than Europe in general. And Singapore, by any standard, is just super safe. Of course you'll get robbed every weekend, but that's because their alcohol is so expensive it feels like robbery

But then, I'm apparently not looking like a victim, never got even in trouble when staying in GRU..

invisible

Singapore is VERY dangerous place. Where else you have a python roaming within 100m from the major business center?

Don't come here, we have pythons, monitor lizards, river otters, great hornbills and black cobra (just one, fortunatelly) terrorizing urban population and if you manage to avoid them, once you have arrived home you will discover this there!

you have not worked hard to find it. Hint - go to Four Floors and let those 'ladies' pour you drink.

Last year my travels included Malaysia, Indonesia, Vietnam, Cambodia, US, Brazil. Apparently I've 'trained my luck' (locals will get this) well enough to stay alive.

Anybody who thinks that driving in Malaysia is dangerous, have not yet tried to cross streets in Cairo, Tbilisi/Georgia or in Chad.

Government have heard you! Now with the ban of alcohol sale after 10:30PM, you wallet will be safe!

See above, about luck...

BuildingMyBento

Ah JB, probably the safest border city I've visited...

BRITINJAPAN3

Not sure what or why you would make fun of what I said, or misrepresent it.

The point is that if you think Singapore is "safe" you may live to regret it. It may be safer than Malaysia or Indonesia but when you feel safe you drop your guard. There are many many crimes in Singapore, mostly what you might call petty crimes of bag snatching etc but that is what the normal traveller is most likely to encounter.

All I am saying is just because crime is not widely reported does not mean it does not exist, remember the press is controlled by the government so many crimes are not reported.

I lived there for 4 years and was persoanlly aware of many crimes that did not make the press.

Nickolash27

Just finished my 100th visit (according to the hotel). Lucky to have got out of the hell-hole in one piece

YuropFlyer

^

Some people really have a weird imagination of Singapore (Yes, BRIT, I mean you ) - it's one of the safest countries/cities in the world. No buts

Only thing that will have me visiting it less often is that retarded 10.30pm alcohol rule. Way to kill your tourism industry..

uk1

BRIT appears to have put a claim up that no one has made and then argued with it. No one has ever said there is no crime.

I have no idea what the point is that he/she is trying to make other than like every place in the world there is crime and the majority of it isn't reported.

I'm glad we sorted that out.

crazycrab955

Somehow I doubt that most tourists choose the countries they wish to visit based on 24 hour availability of alcohol at 7-Eleven.

You do know that the proposed ban only applies to retail establishments, NOT F&B premises like bars and restaurants?

AA_EXP09

You forgot dengue bearing mosquitoes

YuropFlyer

According to the (proposed) law, you won't even be able to - say - go out of a pub with a drink in hand. Also, the definition of what will be allowed / what not might still have some grey zones. I can see them allowing public drinking in some areas (CQ, for example) for touristic reasons. If you've ever been to CQ on (especially) Fr/Sa night, you'll see hundreds of tourists (and some locals, but less so) drinking. Every night. Now, those aren't the high spenders of course, but I'm fairly sure the SIN government doesn't want to have it's renomee fall to level of "boreapore" of the 1980's/1990's, which it tries so hard to leave with all those buildings.. they know that drinking is part of the party, and if they ban drinking - heck, even having an open container in public (!) - they'll make sure Singapore is losing attractiveness for younger tourists. Of which many surprisingly still have a lot of funds to spend. And as SIN makes a LOT of cash with their liquor taxes (which are imho the same, no matter if the Tiger is sold in a 7-11 or a expensive bar) they definitely want to make sure that alcohol consumption isn't decreasing. Because they love to have a decent part of their state income from that (and not from taxes of the general public)..

But yeah, maybe becoming a boring place where only the super rich can enjoy going out in the night (1 pint of beer for 18S$++), and for everyone else it's Boreapore like in the 1980s..

Just FYI, Switzerland which is also only attractive to super-rich people (as it's simple too expensive) is struggling with it's tourism quite a bit.. super-rich peoples alone can't usually make your tourism strategy works.. banning alcohol consumption totally in some of the going-out places (like Geylang) after sunset, and everywhere after 10.30pm will NOT bode well with the younger generations. Mouth-to-mouth propaganda is still the most effective tool.

crazycrab955

Those of us who are Singaporeans or actually live in Singapore generally avoid Clarke Quay like the plague. It's a tourist trap, nothing more. I know of no San Franciscans who hang out at Pier 39 and Fisherman's Wharf. Pretty much the same thing.

And yes, most of us expect there to be specific carve-outs in any alcohol law passed by Parliament to allow "outdoor" drinking at F&B establishments. As for general open carry laws, nothing Singapore has proposed is any more stringent than what is already law in major cities in Europe or US.

I like to drink as much as the next guy but I do think the "backlash" against this proposed law is a bit of an overreaction, and based on misinformation and hyperbole. But that's usually what foreigners happily fall back on when it comes Singapore, so we're used to it.

SQ325

The situation at CQ got out of hand. Thats a fact. Drunk leftovers in the morning, the noise, brawls and broken glass everywhere dont make the CQ area an attractive place to live. And thats the main reason that the law is introduced. Iam backing it (and so do 80% of Singaporeans according to today's newspaper).

Thats an exaggeration. Bans of alcohol in public places are in place in many cities around the world (for example US, Australia and also in Europe). The people there got over it.
And if the attractivness as a tourist destination is backed on the possiblity to consume alcohol in public, then anyway something is wrong with the destination.

The government is earning their money elsewhere, with landsales and taxes on cars (COEs) for sure being by far the highest income. They would not go bankrupt if they would scrap the liquor tax entirely. The income from that tax is negliable.

A pint of beer at most coffeshops cost around 6 SGD net. You can nicely sit outside watching people go by. I honestly dont know many places where you pay 18+++.

I think you are mixing things up quite a bit. The disadvantage that some countries have with their strong home currencies and the effects this has on tourism is a different issue. The SGD is also quite strong against the Euro, it makes Singapore generally less attractive to Europeans because not only alcohol but everything is expensive in Singapore if you have to consider the FX. This applies also to Switzerland.

uk1

The only disagreement I have with the above post is that we find that once we have arrived everything is very cheap ie food and travel etc. I don't mind spending £3 on a bottle of beer and we eat really well for a few pounds. We don't however eat in expensive restaurants.

Obviously hotels and airfares make it an expensive destination to get to but even those have workarounds for good FT'ers ..