yyzjr

Hey folks- hoping you can help me with a decision I need to make. I'm Elite 50k with Air Canada currently, based out of YYZ, but considering status challenging my way to Delta. For context:

• I fly about 35-40 one-way trips per year (so ~60ish segments typically; a fair number of my AC segments were United fares for connections to US destinations)
• About 60% of my trips are between YYZ and the USA (corporate travel);
• another 25-30% are domestic within USA (corporate travel);
• about 10% are domestic within CAN (YYZ to YWG typically 2-3 times per year; personal trips)
• I fly internationally beyond CAN/US ~once per year (personal; Europe/Asia/South America)

The biggest things I'm weighing are:

• The convenience of AC- easy transit to Terminal 1 at YYZ, solid lounge variety at my most used airport (YYZ), easy award redemption for my most-used personal route (YYZ-YWG)
• The better elite perks of Delta- automatic/unlimited upgrades and free same day changes (I can't pay a cent for premium cabin on the corporate flights, so the AC eupgrades only help me so much, esp. with a lot of the AC flights being United)

Secondary considerations are:

• It might actually be easier for me to continually re-qualify as a Delta member; a large number of my AC flights actually being United fares can make hitting the AQD requirements a little tough (whereas the spend requirement with Delta would be waived as a CAN resident)
• Lack of lounge access on the YYZ-YWG route if I'm flying WJ as a Delta elite....would like to treat my wife when we're travelling personally.
• Some debate about which rewards program would serve me better for international vacation point redemption.

Any decision I make I'm probably going to stick with for the next few years, so any input is appreciated! If you think I'm missing an important factor here, please let me know.,

Cozmo456

KenHamer Put me on to DL when I was frustrated with AC. I know maintain SE with AC and Gold with DL. My upgrade record with both is the same. Not a lot of medallion members in Canada and flights to/from the US are a breeze with UDU. Within the US ... not so much.

Premium class fares to places outside North America are much much better. For personal trips I like to sit up front. And with a Nexus, I do not mind connecting through the US.

If you want lounge access, get a CC which gives you some. My wife has one that gives her 4 per year. It is all she needs.

rankourabu

Lack of lounge access on the YYZ-YWG route if I'm flying WJ as a Delta elite....would like to treat my wife when we're travelling personally.


is there not a Plaza Premium in T3 domestic?
Get Scotia Visa for PPass, 6 visits free.
Alternate between you and your wife for first gear free.

Breaking the AC chains is easier than you think.

Adam Smith

OP, welcome to FT!

My first question would be where are you flying to? AC serves a lot more US destinations from YYZ than DL does. If you're already doing a lot of YYZ-ORD/EWR-xxx, maybe it's a wash to do YYZ-MSP/ATL-xxx or whatever. But I would say there's no way the loyalty program is worth adding a lot of inconvenience to your travels.

Another point for consideration: I fly DL a decent amount - never quite enough to achieve status. A while back, I had racked up 100K or so SkyMiles, yet I could never seem to use them. When I would find availability, it would often be for silly things like 200K points for YYC-MSY round trip or something like that. It's a lot like Market Fare on Aeroplan if you're trying to redeem on DL metal. I think there are some decent partner awards still available on fixed mileage if it happens to work out for you (I got some okay, but not great, value on VA domestic flights in J in the end), but I wouldn't expect the reward redemption aspect of the program to be much more favourable than Aeroplan.

I generally quite like DL though. One drawback is that they recently joined AA in excluding Canada, Mexico, and maybe Caribbean (I haven't checked) from being "international" destinations that qualify for lounge access. So even if flying J on, say, YYZ-ATL-GDL, you'll need a credit card to grant you lounge access (although Amex Platinum will do). But overall I find the crews to be pleasant, planes to be in pretty good shape, OTP good (padded block times), and customer service generally quite good.

yyzjr

Thanks!!

Various locations in the US- the higher number of AC directs is definitely some level of a positive for me, but in the majority of my flights to the US I'm connecting anyways. so I'd be doing as you said- swapping out a YYZ-ORD-XXX route for a YYZ-ATL-XXX route. The DL/WJ partnership would also allow me to get DL segments on WJ directs to bigger destinations in the US from YYZ.

Thanks for sharing that...good to know.

I might be misunderstanding this, but my understanding was that DL Gold Medallion would get me lounge access on anything within CAN/US...is that not the case?

Adam Smith

The WS/DL reciprocal earning generally sucks. I'm not 100% sure on what you get at DL for flying WS in terms of segments. I know on miles it was very poor, which is why I've generally credited WS flights to WS and DL flights to DL.

I just checked the DL access rules and it looks like they may have changed the rules back. I was denied entry at SLC doing YYC-SLC-MEX round trip in J back in October because Canada and Mexico were now excluded from "international", but it seems they're now back in, at least for access based on status.

As for domestic flights, I think you only get lounge access based on your status if you're connecting to/from an international flight.

You may get better guidance on these nuances in the DL forum

Symmetre

Welcome to FT. Biggest differences between AC and DL:

DL flights generally depart and arrive on time - quite unlike AC and its consistently brutal OTP.

DL treats you like you're their best customer ever - even if you have no / low status.

Upgrades flying ex-YYZ are generally not that difficult once you attain status.

DL Skylounges are generally pretty good, unlike many of the overcrowded Maple Leaf lounges - some of which are little more than glorified refugee camps.

If you fly primarily to the US, you'll be happier on DL - especially with so many of AC's transborder routes having been roughed rouged.

ericw

Get a Amex Plat so you have your lounge issue solved. Unlimited DL sky club access too.

In the last 2 years, I noticed that ST offers a lot better value out of YYZ than *A. You get WS/DL/AM for easy access and decent fares to CAN, US, Central America - south america is improving quickly for DL too. There are consistently great fares on KL/AF for Europe, Africa and Central Asia, compared to AC/LH. MU is flooding the market for Asia (sadly, CZ is leaving - they had some great J/PE deals and I dont mind flying them).

GateGuardian

Delta Platinum here based out of YYZ.

I have Amex Platinum so lounge is not an issue. I honestly think anyone that travels a lot should have this card, just in case the company doesn't cover any cancellation or last minute changes. Great perks for getting upgrades, regardless of what status you currently have.

Upgrades are not 100%, but my outbound I'm 80% successful getting an upgrade.

The biggest benefit of flying DL over AC is 1. Gate Agents, and CS don't act like you're doing them a favour. The mobile app works amazing well.

The downside would be you're prob. going to have a hard to finding a direct flight if you don't like connecting. Also, Westjet is a partner, but you don't get any benefits, so it's kinda useless.

Depending on what travel software your company use, they may put you in basic economy fare on Delta, which would suck.

Besides SLC, most flights out of YYZ is pretty short, so don't expect any meals in FC.

Internationally, Skyteam does not have a good presence to Asian comparing to *A, but you have KLM, AF, and Alitalia going to Europe so it's not bad.

Leaving out of YYZ, Gold will get your SkyTeam Elite+, which gives you free access to the Delta SkyClub. Note, there's no Skyclub or Skyteam lounge in T3 US Transborder. Your only option is Premium Plaza Lounge or AA if you have OneWorld status on another airline (i.e. Marco Polo).

Note that Delta Diamond requires 125K while Altitude 100K only requires....100K. No MQD requirement for Canadians though.

Fiordland

Also a Amex Plat user. Excellent card for lounge access. Delta lounges when flying Delta. Plaza Premium and Priority Pass when flying anyone else. The other benefit out of Toronto is jumping the line at security. You need that at Terminal 3 in Toronto.

These days I doing most of my flying on Alaska, WestJet, and Delta. I end up from time to time on AC and partners, e.g. TAP or Lufthansa. Getting status on WestJet is not hard. Life is to short to be spending more time flying than you have to so I focus on using the Amex Plat and picking the best flight.

xliioper

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/undefined DL doesn't have any fixed formulas for mileage redemptions, but almost all of the lower award levels have advance purchase requirements. The key to finding decent deals is paying attention to those (typically 21-days for domestic US and US-Canada and lengthier 60 - 90 day advance for international). I just went through finding summer TATL D1 flights for 160K roundtrip for another FT'er. This ticket would have cost $3500 - $4000 as a revenue fare. DL has roundtrip awards for YYC-MSY from 21.5K in BE and 27K in main cabin. I don't see anything near 200K for coach. Maybe for FC.

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/31973683-post14.html

Adam Smith

Isn't there still an award chart for partner redemptions? Or has that been done away with too?

200K was for J/F. But I've also frequently seen >100K for Y. Regardless, Aeroplan costs 50K for a J redemption intra-North America and 110K to Europe, if one can find the availability. And in Canada, it's easy to earn at least 1 Aeroplan mile per C$ spent through various credit cards, but no DL cards here, while Amex MR transfer 1:1 to Aeroplan but only 1:0.75 to SkyMiles.

I'm not saying there aren't potentially some decent redemptions available in SkyMiles, I'm just saying OP shouldn't expect that to be an advantage in switching to DL.

LockheedElectra

I was in a very similar situation as you until last year, where the company I was working for was HQ'd in Atlanta, so I had a lot of flights to US destinations as well as international. I ended up having both SE and Platinum status on AC and Delta at the same time. As Adam Smith said, it depends on where you flying, but here are my high level points for what they are worth:
1. I was reasonably successful at getting comp upgrades out of Toronto, on virtually any other flight between US destinations forget it except on the odd route even with Platinum, as even a lot of Diamonds don't get upgraded. That being said, and as others have noted, the fares for Business Class on Delta can be pretty reasonable if your company allows you to book a P fare.
2. I got really tired of connecting in Atlanta really fast, and ended up using direct AC flights wherever possible as it just wasn't worth the extra accumulated days in Hartsfield Jackson. I still get shudders thinking of the wasted hours in that f'ing airport.
3. Delta is a great airline, and I got used to flights being on time, and messages in advance when they are delayed, and even notices when bags were loaded on the plane. They are light years ahead of AC with their operations.

Points Poppa

All great insight provided so far. I would just also point out these features:

MQMs rollover so if you get to 60k, next year you start +10k.
Skymiles are terrible, but since there is no chart sometimes they will surprise you - just booked 4 in Y to SLC for 10k apiece. If you want Aeroplan miles, get them from credit cards.
DL Gold can almost always get Comfort+ (free drinks, snacks and more legroom).
Amex Business Platinum ftw (lower fee).
Biscoff cookies.

Bravada04

DL as mentioned before...…...Customer Service miles ahead of AC.
DL app …...MILES ahead of AC
DL on time...…...miles ahead of AC

You actually feel like you are a valued customer which makes a difference for me!