Thanks for your feedback, ryan182. Let me start by saying that I never claimed to want a 7 or 8 figure salary. I believe that being treated fairly and equitably is all I'm asking.

Secondly, you very obviously have a negative view of unions. I simply ask that you try for a moment to consider the perspective from the other side. Sure, unions aren't ideal. But letting management have free rein over our work rules and quality of life isn't either. In an ideal world, we *would* be able to come to equitable terms through rational discussion and debate. But you and I both know that we don't live in that world. It's unfortunate that it does, on occasion, seem to come down to the us vs them mentality you mentioned, but in a corporate environment where you can't trust the people who are supposed to be your leaders, what do you expect?

I think that a lot of front line UA employees, myself included, *do* have a good work ethic and sense of personal responsibility. I don't think that fighting for my rights from within the union framework prevents that. But being in a union does protect me from the arbitrary whims of managers who have proved time and again that *we do not matter to them*.

I'm truly amazed that as a 1K, you seem not to respect the careers and struggles of the people who go to such lengths on a daily basis to serve you and make your travel safe and enjoyable! We're not always the bad guys, I promise!

Finally, before you accuse me again of not understanding the free market system -- you should know that on several occasions, I have taken on second jobs to supplement my income, so I understand quite well what it's like out there in the 'real world' (as you put it). Guess I *am* trying to work on those 7 figures...

Thanks for the laugh Ryan.

Do their respective contracts require them to make bogus maintenance gripes? I doubt it, but that is what happened in 2000. Daily gripes tripled, out of service airplanes tripled or worse, and the day the contracts were signed the daily gripes fell by 2/3 and the out of service airplanes were back in the air. Professionals? I seriously doubt it. Professionals DO NOT ALLOW their disagreements with their employers affect the customer. Your unions allowed and endorsed these activities.

I don't know if they are, but the response should be entirely different than in 2000. Don't want to come to work? That can be arranged. Want a work slow-down, that can put you in front of a Federal judge with millions in penalties. Don't think it can happen? Just as the American pilots union.

Nice way to cover you ***. I guess you have heard what happened to the American pilots union.

I am not devoted to anyone (other than my wife and kids). I am devoted to the truth. You complain about a CEO's pay package and throw numbers around without explanation. This is a tried and true union tactic. Rile up the workers against the mean old management bogeyman. You say that the CEO's pay is more than the profit of the entire airline. That is false. If you had bothered to look into it for yourself you would have discovered that the 40 million dollar figure thrown around is over a four year period. You would also have learned that it is only accurate if he sells his stock options when the price of the stock is at $57 a share. What is the high of the stock price since coming out of bankruptcy? $50? $51? What is it now? $40? You also fail to admit that this pay package was agreed to and understood by the unions PRIOR TO EXITING BANKRUPTCY and is now being used to rile the troops.

The numbers I found said that Tilton was paid about $9 million for the past 12 months. Is that too much? I don't know. Am I pissed off about it? No. Someone will be the CEO and that person will negotiate the best deal possible.

When was the last time you or your union were happy with a UA CEO?

Ever?

I worry about what I can do to improve the place I can work and make my customers happy. I don't slow down to send a message. I don't fail to come in to send a message. I don't make bogus reports on internal company paperwork. All of which you seem to be advocating. Maybe there is some other company you would be happier at.

That was a sick-out. Totally different.

Yeah, a sick out. Not the same as working the hours that your contract requires you to work. You can hardly be penalized by a federal judge for working the hours your contract tells you to!


Huh? I'm not advocating any of those things! Where are you getting this? I've tried to explain my position without inciting you to anger, but it seems I can't do it. I think if you read my posts closely, you'll see that we do the same thing -- to quote you -- improve the place I can work and make my customers happy.

Guess we should end this here. Seem to be at an impasse as far as discussing things, but I think we both agree that we want UA to succeed. At least we will be working together in that regard.

Nice, I like how you ignore the central point of the post.

"You complain about a CEO's pay package and throw numbers around without explanation. This is a tried and true union tactic. Rile up the workers against the mean old management bogeyman. You say that the CEO's pay is more than the profit of the entire airline. That is false. If you had bothered to look into it for yourself you would have discovered that the 40 million dollar figure thrown around is over a four year period. You would also have learned that it is only accurate if he sells his stock options when the price of the stock is at $57 a share. What is the high of the stock price since coming out of bankruptcy? $50? $51? What is it now? $40? You also fail to admit that this pay package was agreed to and understood by the unions PRIOR TO EXITING BANKRUPTCY and is now being used to rile the troops.

The numbers I found said that Tilton was paid about $9 million for the past 12 months. Is that too much? I don't know. Am I pissed off about it? No. Someone will be the CEO and that person will negotiate the best deal possible.

When was the last time you or your union were happy with a UA CEO?

Ever?"

Can you at least agree that your numbers were wrong?




BTW, You have not incited me to anger. I just don't like seeing lies used to further a unions' positions.

Somehow the vast majority of Americans manage to do quite well.

As for work rules, between the FAA and OSHA your pretty well covered for safety. I can only assume "quality of life" == "we want to work less" well join the club.

It always strikes me as odd, as the UA employees here on FT seem to likely be those that care (or why read our rants?) and probably do a stellar job one would think they would like systems that rewarded excellence vs age. Though everyone seems to think without your big protector you'd be paid $5/hour and/or lose your jobs. I suppose the old saying is true:"If you repeat a lie often enough, eventually people will eventually accept it as truth"


I trust in those endeavors you were:
a) paid a wage commensurate to the amount of work required and your skill level
b) not forced to work unreasonable hours
c) provided a work area that was safe
and everyone's favorite:
d) not fired on some management guys "whim"

and best of all you got a-d for FREE! Just like everyone else and without threating to shutdown your employer or making a huge scene.

Here is the statement that provided me with my salary info:

"The Associated Press calculates a total of $39.7 million in 2006 compensation for Glenn Tilton, alone. Compensation includes salary, bonus, incentives, perks, above-market returns on deferred compensation and the estimated value of stock options and awards granted during the year."

I find several other things wrong with your statement, but in all honesty, I'm tired of arguing about this with you. As unionized employees, we're on the same side of this in the end. As I said in the last post, we're both working towards the success of UA, and that's just going to have to be enough. We're obviously not going to see eye to eye on some things. I'm ok with that.

Well, I certainly think I do an excellent job at work (judge for yourself if you ever have me on a flight... you'll see that I don't shirk any duties; in fact I quite often try to do more than is required to enhance the experience). And I certainly don't try to "work less", as you say.

But your right about one thing -- I wouldn't trust mgmt to treat us fairly without the protection of the union. No need to reply. I know you disagree. And we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

And here is information that you need to know before you get upset about his pay:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...i-bizfront-hed

"Tilton, the former oil executive who led the airline through one of the largest reorganizations in U.S. history, last year received total compensation worth about $9.3 million for the year: a salary of $687,083, a bonus of $839,028, other perquisites worth $210,959 and stock and options worth $7.6 million."

"In the weeks after United emerged from bankruptcy on Feb. 1, 2006, Tilton received 822,000 stock options worth $17.9 million at the time they were granted, as well as 545,000 restricted shares then worth $20.1 million. The stock and options vest over a four-year period, which started in August.

In September, United entered into a new, five-year employment agreement with Tilton that boosted his base pay by 40 percent, to $850,000 per year, though still $100,000 less than his original base pay when he joined the carrier in 2002."


So to recap some facts:

He made 9.3 million last year, not 40 million. The stock vest over four years (and even then are only worth 40 million if the stock is at $57 or more when he sells) And he is still making less than when he joined the company.

If you wish to bash him using real numbers then that is fine. Please stop using the lies/missperceptions that are being pushed by your union.

Interesting that the company is asking the pilots to amend their SIGNED CONTRACT right now! Are you saying what is good for one isn't good for the other? They will be voting on this, and the results, IMO, will not favor the company.

Wrong! F/a's and pilots are NOT covered by OSHA. We are at the mercy of the FAA for health and safety. And that is not always a pretty picture.

Airlines (and other transporatation types) operate in a different environment. I'm sorry you can't see that. Having worked in BOTH union/nonunion as well as government I can see BOTH sides. Maybe you can try to.

Thanks Liz, for some much needed backup!

I think, though, that this will be my last post in this thread. Who knew this would be such a powder keg?

I think what has thrown both ryan182 and planemechanic is the idea of an employee who can maintain excellence and high standards while operating within the union framework. I am an anomaly to you... but realize that there are a lot of us out there like that. We don't seek the downfall of the airline or the inconveniencing of the passenger. But we do stick up for our rights. Perhaps both of us need a little time in each other's shoes.

To ryan182, I can only say that I wish you could understand both sides of the situation. I can certainly see your point, but I don't think you comprehend that airlines work differently at all levels than the 'real world' jobs you try to compare us to. It's pointless for us to argue further. You probably won't get your dream of non unionized labor anytime soon. Sorry.

--------------

To answer the question posed by the original poster... the morale situation at UAL...

For Tilton, te senior execs, most of upper management, and one feisty mechanic ...well, all's flying high!

For everyone else... still in recovery, but we've got a ways to go.

Happy flying to everyone. Hope to serve you in the friendly skies soon!

OK, where should they have been where they would have been easier to locate?

At minimum they could have told flight ops where they would be. They didn't do that.

I seem to recall you're a former FA. Would it have been standard procedure for you to wait inside a "broken" plane for your next assignment without telling a superior or anyone in ops where you would be?

So you still think they were "hiding"? As in, "Let's go some place where no one will ever think to look for us -- the plane we were scheduled to work"? As if a "broken" plane doesn't have mechanics and supervisors swarming all over it trying to fix it and find out when it will be ready to board/fly? In a big airport, that's the best place you think they could have come up with if that's what they were trying to do?

Obviously you have a low opinion of front-line airline employees, but really, pilots are smarter than that.

You seem to have been fed some bad information (or misunderstood something) that you were all to eager to grab onto.