Have flown DL almost exclusively over the past 4 years, meaning I’ve done a handful of round trips to/from HND in D1.

Prior to COVID, I flew both UA Polaris and AA long-haul J many times, enough to get a sense of both the hard and soft product offerings on these carriers. And I have to say, unless AA and UA have both permanently degraded their business class offerings post-COVID, I don’t see how D1 consistently beats them out in any category. There are also some consistent areas I find lacking in D1:

- Old equipment. The D1 suites will be competitive until the competition gets doors, but they’re OLD. The IFE monitor on my last flight had a messed up touch screen that caused my movies to constantly pause. And that’s not even mentioning the non-suite seats marketed as D1…

- Food volume and presentation are like Domestic First more often than not: salad and main all served at once, no bread basket or even warm bread, no linen on the plastic food tray. In fact, my last couple of D1 flights, the only real differences between the meal service and a domestic F meal were the warm nuts at the beginning, and the dessert being served separately at the end. They’ve even gotten rid of the navy blue doily thing for the warm nuts recently.

- Spotty service: Not always greeted by name, drink refills only offered incidental to moving the meal service forward, generally no “above and beyond” from D1 FAs

Is my read on D1 in line with others’ recent experiences? How do they compare today with UA and AA? I find it hard to believe that the product I describe above can continue to command a 20-70% premium over its direct competitors in the US. And I wonder how much further Delta’s admittedly stellar branding will take it.

I haven’t flown UA or AA business in years, but I have flown BA, AF, SQ, JL, and KAL business class since COVID.

My assessment of DL’s business class hasn’t changed at all. It’s a “fine” product on par with the European airlines but not as good as the Asian carriers. I understand why people would have preferences amongst the various Asian carriers, and I’ll defer on which ones are “best” for this discussion.

I don’t understand the desire for the “suite” as I just don’t have the “need” for privacy like some others. As such, seat comfort is my #1 priority, followed by the food. I don’t care about the IFE too much since I spend most of my flight sleeping or working/web surfing. With that being said, DL’s product on the 359 is great. And the 763 is awful.

I haven’t had food served on one tray except for late night express meals. I don’t drink so couldn’t care less about the “lack of service” discussions, but I haven’t noticed it either. I flew ATL-EDI on Thursday night and the gentleman had two screwdrivers with breakfast, and I was served two rounds of coffee. So I guess I just haven’t noticed it.

re DL V AA and UA? Fly whatever is least expensive and fits your schedule. If you’re in business, why are you loyal??? I mean, I really don’t care that the FA welcomed me and said “Mr Dog, thank you for being a DM. I see you requested no dinner on this flight.” Don’t pay the premium if the alternatives make sense.

I hear this a lot (not just directed at DL, you hear the same thing in complaints about UA and AA (and others)) and I honestly have no idea what it means. Like, I can imagine a scenario where an FA would go "above and beyond" but it would require some extraordinary circumstances to be present first. On an ordinary flight with no noteworthy happenings, I basically want the FAs to leave me alone.

But I get it, some people want constant fawning attention from the servants, ok. Even in that case, I still don't know what "above and beyond" would look like beyond the already present complaints about service (e.g. "they let my glass get somewhat below 3/4 full before refilling it all the way to the brim" or "they plopped my dinner down").

D1 suites are what, like 5 years old? The 777s were getting refreshed right before covid when DL decided to retire them all. Calling them "old" seems a little unreasonable, no airline is going to refresh the hard product more frequently than that. I've definitely had complaints with that product (mostly around the hardness) but the age isn't one of them.

All of the European and US experiences are more similar than they are different. Virgin has a few extra touches; I recently tried SAS business from ATL and their meal service was very nice. All of the actual beds are similar: kind of narrow, awkward bumps and gaps, but yes they are actually flat.

I love the 763 because you actually can sit with your travel partner. I dislike the high partitions and doors on newer planes. They make me feel a bit lonely.

Using lie flat products is of course very wasteful of energy and, for east coast TATL and transcontinental flying, a mediocre opportunity to get any sleep. The Premium Economy products are much more sensible. Fly to Europe on Saturday, walk around town on Sunday, spend $200 extra to get real sleep in a top line hotel. Be ready for Monday and save $3000+ on air fare. It works.

If you're flying from Haneda, have you tried a Japanese airline (if you want direct)? ... to LAX?
Or even ZipAir?

I mean you can fly Singapore (SG12) which is repositioning.
Gulf3 and Asian carriers (minus Thai, which is okay and doesn't fly direct to USA) are much better.

As noted above, Euro carriers are pretty spartan.

I take the Virgin day flight in Premium Economy from JFK>LHR on Saturday or Sunday and fall asleep in a hotel by 12-1am and am never tired or jet lagged.

Believe me, I only pay for D1 what I think it’s worth, which is often quite a lot for me by virtue of living by a captive DL hub, and traveling with an infant that drives us to prefer direct flights. I’m just stunned that the market bears the premium the charge vs others (including Asian carriers) even on itineraries with a connection.

Case in point, I just booked our next HND return on an Asian carrier because despite liking direct flights, I don’t like them 3x the Asian carrier’s fare’s worth.

I think this is a “you know it when you see it” factor that comes down to staff dedication and morale. And it’s not something I personally value that much. But it’s also a huge differentiator for many people when choosing between PY and J, and something that I’d argue is absent from D1 with surprising frequency given what they charge. But to your point, if it’s a perennial complaint across US carriers, then maybe it’s not a true driver of customer cabin selection.

While I haven’t flown UA or AA in international business (only domestic F), I do fly DL in both, so quite familiar with D1. My thoughts:

I have yet to see an FA go above and beyond in D1, the few times this has happened it’s been on a domestic F flight. D1 service is fairly consistent, but that’s it. Nothing special.

Re drink refills, I will say I usually find them lacking in D1, I’m guessing it’s due to the volume of pax and the general rush through service. Where they should always be offered when a glass is empty, in D1 they are more likely to pick up your glass and say nothing. In domestic F they tend to ask. It’s gotten to where in D1 I have to be specific and go out of my way to ask for a refill. I used to feel bad about this, being a crew member myself and seeing the crazy folks FAs sometimes deal with, but when one is spending thousands of dollars on a ticket, I no longer think it is unreasonable.

Meal service flow: I have not, since pre-Covid, had a coursed delivery. It’s been all on one tray. Every. Single. Time. Doesn’t matter if it’s international or domestic D1. Day or night. Long or short. I think coursed delivery is the unicorn-like myth of D1. Some folks say they get it always, but other than dessert, I don’t think it exists anymore, despite what the service standard says.

That said, I find the seating of all D1 products to be comfortable, even the 763. I enjoy the lie flat seats and have no problems getting a good rest, which is where I place the value of the ticket most days. While the suites are nice, I do agree some are starting to show their wear. The 763 I was on earlier this week was in better shape than an A339 last year. I have an A359 trip this fall that I’m looking forward to, but will likely be on one of the older/original DL A359s, so mildly concerned the seat will be a disappointment.

Bottomline I think DL is going for the robotic-like consistency of KE in their D1 service and not encouraging above and beyond. Despite my griping, I’m incredibly fortunate and thankful to be able to fly D1, as it’s always on my dime. I’ve done my fair share of coach flights, and the worst day in D1 is better than the best in the back

yeah I still don't get it because "dedication and morale" are usually primary factors for people who have this sort of complaint. In your OP your first comment about service was "didn't greet me by name" - so is that a baseline expectation in your book, or "above and beyond"?

(FWIW I find these sorts of "oh hello Mr <whatever it says on my computer> thank you for being <whatever status level it says on my computer>" greetings to be ridiculous and cringe but that's not really relevant)

It used to.

I've flown every DL J seat except the A330-900NEO and for hard products I've found I prefer the AA J seat or the UA Polaris seat over DL's seats. AA J and UA Polaris seats just seem to be more comfortable and better padded to me.

One area I have to imagine DL beats out AA and UA is the lounge, at least for the Flagship J lounge for AA. My only experience with the Flagship F lounge was still during COVID so no Flagship Dining but I recently got to do the Flagship J lounge and was very underwhelmed. The Flagship J lounge for AA at DFW was more akin to a traditional SkyClub in terms of food and amenities but with a self-serve bar and just less crowded.

Going back to hard product though, following price & schedule, hard product is the most important factor and it's why AA and UA are now my preferred option over DL for getting to Hawaii (the location I most often fly Business Class to).

There are still some benefits to status even when in F/J, such as better IROPS protection, priority phone lines when calling, and better redeemable mileage earn rate. The status building from flying J also benefits the times one does fly Y. Of course there's always a cost-benefit analysis that should be performed but it's more complex than simply saying/asking "if you're in business, why are you loyal?"

To me, AF A350 48J is the best business class product between Europe and the US at the moment. Hard and soft products considered.

Delta is fine—but I avoid the older A330s because they are showing their age. The DL A350 suite is still a great product in my opinion on a fantastic plane.

I’ve also had good experiences in the BA club suites, and I look forward to AA’s new business class suites—but I rarely fly with them these days.

I haven’t flown long-haul with UA in years.

Glad I am not the only one who finds this cringe and performative!