Indeed, passenger numbers won't drop at all - why should they? Any airline well or poorly managed can fill planes on almost any route (which is precisely what FR and the likes manage on the most improbable ones). The question is whether yields are affected or not. And if you are sure that that won't happen (or for that matter that it will), you know something I (and more importantly BA) don't.

BA are obviously making so much profit they won't even take my money at present.......either that or I'm one of the undesirable customers they don't want

Did get the �15 Ryanair style exit row seat charge but that disappeared at check-in.

The new website looks like they're becoming Ryanair with all the seat charges, "continue to extras" for "adds a bag at �35" etc.
Better get used to having to pay these if I fly BA after my card expires next year....

Was going to book a BA flight to GOT from MAN.
Only �207 if I fly out at 6:05am and want to arrive sometime late in the evening.
FR was a direct flight arriving at 8:45am, just over �17 with a small bag (paid �8.50 for a standard seat and could have added priority for �25, including the seat, and added a 20kg check in bag for �21.99). Pretty much �63-�70 if i added everything.

Yes there's no lounge, and I miss the joys of LHR, 10-20TP and a handful of Avios, but a third of the price all in and I get there a good 10 or so hours earlier... definitely don't miss BA with deals like this that make me exactly the cheapskate they don't want!

The question we all have is will KARFA come good on her bet

Probably more than that on this board

I�ve read most of this thread but two contributions, first from BerksFlyer (I think I�ve got that right), and second Bisonrav (again I hope that�s correct) stood out as far as my own thinking goes.



First, and to do with discretionary spend, I�m in a similar situation to BerksFlyer. I could fairly straightforwardly get a Silver Card under the new regime if I was so inclined. I could make Gold too if I felt the benefits from the investment were worth it, but at �20,000 I simply don�t. My husband believes it may be and, if so, when we travel together, my own diminution in status is somewhat mitigated.



The second point was to do with how BA respond to their customer�s reaction. This is where I am with Bisonrav: I shall wait and see. I will have Gold until 2026 and (soft landings assuming) Silver until 2027. If BA pull a �reverse ferret� to quote my favourite magazine I shall see where that leaves me. If not my husband, who spends a lot of time in Finland specifically and Scandinavia more generally, will switch to the Finnair programme, and I shall cross over to the dark side: Virgin, KLM and Air France (whom I like) here I come.



I came to flyertalk quite by chance, when I was in my early 20s. The BAEC (as it was) forum got me a silver card, showed me the value of 62A et al, got me a Gold Card and here we are almost sixteen years later.



Like so many others there are aspects of the British Airways experience that, thanks to this forum, I shall miss, but there�s a whole world out there. Let us make the most of it. BA�s crumbling organisation has as part of its sticking plaster the frequent flyer programme. Let�s see how well it holds together when that gets ripped off.



Onward and upward. (And see you all back here in three years when they�ve decided it was an unmitigated disaster &#129315.

well yes by the end of that week the fairy did look stupid so effectively lost the bet.

put it this way, this isn�t someone I�d want working for me or on my team.

There will no doubt be nda on this and quite heavily as well.

perhaps the whole of BA including those working on this project are full of mistrust.

I wonder to what degree the business case testing allowed for loyalty to disappear? After all, that was what BAEC was fundamentally about. But if my loyalty costs me or my business more, I would expect to see material improvements in the rewards and perks of loyalty. But I doubt this will come with a materially better soft product, so it�s just a good old fashioned BA enhancement. Time and the P&L will tell how successful it is.

Not sure the bet was time limited?

Being serious for a moment, whilst I agree that confidentiality in business is fundamental (albeit contractually rather than through NDAs), the leak does point to some comments UT on how badly this has gone down internally. Whoever this was clearly dislikes this as much as we do.

The above mentioned �20k investment.

To be honest, you need to be flying a lot to make any real use of it. Even then, apart from the first wing at LHR, and maybe a handful of lounges on the network, unless you're flying solely Y or PE, you're going to get nothing much from it.
Sure there's many here who get a gold card and then fly mostly in CW or have a couple of trips or flights on top of things.
You could argue then that you could be paying the equivalent of �1000s for a QF LAX visit etc. on those limit flights.

Silver, at least at present, doesn't get you that many fewer benefits.

Are the cards still going to give bonus Avios? Or just the token 1500, 2500 or whatever has been mentioned somewhere.

...except that a huge number will be dormant accounts and even those which are not dormant will be blue members, for whom this has zero relevance. I think that this is not something which is of major interest to the general public and I do not find it that surprising that the BBC does not cover it. I don't ever recall the BBC being interested in issues related to frequent flyer or frequent stayer programmes. I think the same would be true in most other European countries (US news outlets, OTOH, are more likely to engage with those kind of stories).

Yes, that�s rather what I was thinking. Perhaps my husband is planning on spending �20,000 (++, I know) taking me on �luxury� BA Holidays to make the spend.

As a vignette of where things are heading, my wife and I (Gold / Silver respectively) have today been doing some long range holiday planning for 25 and 26. Our trip to Lisbon that would have been a BAH in October (previously 80TP / 160TP double) is now going to net just 1000TP - so we're instead going to take TAP for the first time and try them out. Our long haul F/J to west coast canada was going to have been BA (likely via a US gateway city then a One World transfer) - now we're looking more widely and finding better routings for us on Air France and US carriers. Our far east F/J trip will be likely Singapore or QR over BA.

My point is that this time last week, this would have been an unthinkable conversation, such was our brand loyalty to BA. Today BA is now seen as an also ran along side a lot of other players for 3 trips that collectively we'd be looking at �20k of spend between 2 of us over 18 months that is now lost to BA. We won't be the only people in this position, and we're voting with our feet.

Agree, this will build up revenue for BA by selling more Avios to AMEX, which in turn, generates more swipe fees. My bet is BA/AMEX/Chase will follow a Delta like allow a credit card spend requirement to reach status; will help business accounts and their travelers.

Loyalty program has always been a rebate program to generate future business. People use it for perceived value with such rebate program; people move on when that business no longer serves them well. Except, the rebate programs have been gamified.

Just look at the US carriers model, loyalty persists even with the grumbling when revenue based system first rolled out....BA will be no different in 6 months time, and this board will be back in full swing on all things BA. Sure, some people will deflect, but anyone who is schedule sensitive, and when BA offers the best schedule, they'll stay with BA. Most fliers are in the best schedule category anyways. Only on FT do people backtrack or take a longer route for a loyalty program, but once the value proposition changes for that individual, then the irrational behavior will cease. No different than when I switched from AA to BA, and now, back to AA.

Chose 3:
1. Price (to include loyalty program perks: lounge/baggage/etc).
2. Schedule.
3. Best premium product.

I would call it plainly ridiculous.

What about TP runs done for leisure? Is there really a difference if one stays at a destination 7 days instead of 2? And if one prefers indirect routes because likes flying?

In any case, whatever the reason for the change could have been, announcing it only 3 months before enabling it is gigantic BS together with a slap in the face and a kick in the butt.

I'm not that upset for the change to revenue driven status - even if the amounts requested are ludicrous - but I'm royally p...ed off for how they managed to introduce it.

Kudos to anybody that has read every post in this thread; much like my interaction with FlyerTalk itself, I've dipped in and out. The thing is, I'm not a typical FTer: I've never done a back to back or an ex-EU trip. Whilst I have tied myself to BA, my status (Gold) has been achieved organically; ironically, through increased business travel post-COVID! In tying loyalty to revenue, I believe that what BA have done here is absolutely correct, it's just that the thresholds have been set way too high! I do think that we need to consider our impact on the environment, which is why some threads on here sit uneasily with me. Having said that, I'm happy to be called out as a complete hypocrite on this! Last year, my daughter's class at school were calculating their carbon footprint, and the teacher said to her, "you only have to input the holidays that you've taken this year!" In response, my daughter replied, "I have!" and luckily she didn't add that they were all in F or J!!
In terms of how these changes affect me and us: based on current bookings, I will retain Gold in the coming year but, beyond that, I will likely fall short and will not be 'chasing' it. Certainly, for our next trip to Banff we will be on AC to YYC rather than any indirect routing with BA.
As the late, great Douglas Adams wrote, 'so long, and thanks for all the fish!'