Nov 10, 2020, 8:50 am
Last edit by: realgaga
Please check the table below to see if you are impacted by the new changes.
NEW FARE FAMILIES (AND ITS ATTRIBUTES) ONLY APPLY TO TICKETS ISSUED ON QR 157 STOCK.
For FAQs related to the new fare families, visit https://www.qatarairways.com/tradepa...eFamilies.html.
NEW FARE FAMILIES (AND ITS ATTRIBUTES) ONLY APPLY TO TICKETS ISSUED ON QR 157 STOCK.
For FAQs related to the new fare families, visit https://www.qatarairways.com/tradepa...eFamilies.html.
QR unbundles business class with new R fares
Nov 16, 2020 | 5:07 am
#241
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tokyo
Programs: JAL Diamond Metal (OWE), SK Gold (STE+, LTG), UA Platinum(*G),Marriott Titanium (LTP)
Posts: 26,533
I had a pretty positive experience with QR today, worth sharing given the focus on the new R class. Not sure if my experience is standard or not, but if we enough to keep me happy....
- Flight booked HKG - IAD in July. Cancelled by QR. Original price was around 9,000 USD for 2 adults & 1 infant.
- I rescheduled for November, and found a great fare--7,600 USD for the same itinerary.
- 3- 4 sets of changes made by QR, then I ended up cancelling the flight on my end (not going to do hotel quarantine upon return to HKG with infant). But since some of the flight changes were for more than 2 hours, I could refund the ticket, extend validity, or get travel voucher.
- I ended up cancelling the itinerary but keeping the ticket and extending validity for 2 years.
- Called back today to reschedule. Noticed prices are now 11,300 USD for the same itinerary, for pretty much any dates in all of 2021. Asked agent for advice. Here's what she said:
-- First, the really low far I had was the new R class. So no lounge access or seat selection (that's what led me to this thread, as that was new to me).
-- But since my flight changes all fell under covid rules, she would do the following:
--- No change fees, which was expected
--- But also no fare difference. So they let me choose any set of dates in 2021 and maintain the 7,600 R class fare. This was unexpected.
--- She then upgraded my fare class to I, and confirmed I'd get seat selection and Al Mourjan access.
--- She also confirmed we could still pay for access to Al Safwa (this was critical for us, because our return trip has a 10+ hr layover, and with an infant the hotel rooms at Al Safwa were the key to us using QR).
--- Last, new itinerary remains fully flexible.
Would be interested if other people had the same experience, but this was a positive for me.
- Flight booked HKG - IAD in July. Cancelled by QR. Original price was around 9,000 USD for 2 adults & 1 infant.
- I rescheduled for November, and found a great fare--7,600 USD for the same itinerary.
- 3- 4 sets of changes made by QR, then I ended up cancelling the flight on my end (not going to do hotel quarantine upon return to HKG with infant). But since some of the flight changes were for more than 2 hours, I could refund the ticket, extend validity, or get travel voucher.
- I ended up cancelling the itinerary but keeping the ticket and extending validity for 2 years.
- Called back today to reschedule. Noticed prices are now 11,300 USD for the same itinerary, for pretty much any dates in all of 2021. Asked agent for advice. Here's what she said:
-- First, the really low far I had was the new R class. So no lounge access or seat selection (that's what led me to this thread, as that was new to me).
-- But since my flight changes all fell under covid rules, she would do the following:
--- No change fees, which was expected
--- But also no fare difference. So they let me choose any set of dates in 2021 and maintain the 7,600 R class fare. This was unexpected.
--- She then upgraded my fare class to I, and confirmed I'd get seat selection and Al Mourjan access.
--- She also confirmed we could still pay for access to Al Safwa (this was critical for us, because our return trip has a 10+ hr layover, and with an infant the hotel rooms at Al Safwa were the key to us using QR).
--- Last, new itinerary remains fully flexible.
Would be interested if other people had the same experience, but this was a positive for me.
Nov 16, 2020 | 5:09 am
#242
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London
Programs: Hilton, IHG - BA, GA, LH, QR, SV, TK
Posts: 18,285
Introducing a low-key premium economy would be smart: business-lite on long-haul services is nuts. Bonkers.
If a meaningful, transparent, lower fare-class for the business cabin were introduced at a level likely to attract Y-J conversions and migration from competitors, downwards-shifting from higher QR fares would be inevitable.
But transparency is anathema to QR. So we are unlikely to get R fares and R-lite fares published: instead we'll see anecdotal analysis on the lines of the Paris-CDG observations. Smoke and mirrors.
Nov 16, 2020 | 5:29 am
#243
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London
Programs: Hilton, IHG - BA, GA, LH, QR, SV, TK
Posts: 18,285
Your hopes for Safwa should be accompanied by prayers: the place is closed until further notice.
With the collapse of QR's first-class it's been something of a white elephant and may re-open in a different form. In any case, the sleeping rooms were subject to availability. Buying your way in would have been expensive, and sleep-rooms not guaranteed - so it might be sensible to look at the hotel: proper rooms plus access to a swimming pool.
Nov 16, 2020 | 7:26 am
#244
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold/OW emerald, QR
Posts: 17,035
It does on my CDG example (also from other EU origins in December).
But whether that price drop is sufficient is another issue.
I am just venturing possible arguments in favor of unbundling and creating a lower-priced J.
One argument may be that people will travel less in the next couple of years. The rare times they do, they may be ready to spend more to access flight comfort and lower health risks.
Longhaul airlines will have to be very creative to fill their planes with decent loads.
Nov 16, 2020 | 7:29 am
#245
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold/OW emerald, QR
Posts: 17,035
Are we absolutely sure access to oneworld partner lounges is a given? Looking at the new Classic fares on QR's website for December travel out of London and lounge access is expressly excluded.
I ask because if QR is not paying for access then the logical conclusion is access will be denied.
I ask because if QR is not paying for access then the logical conclusion is access will be denied.
But non-status pax will not have any lunge access.
Nov 16, 2020 | 8:24 am
#246
Join Date: Jun 2008
Programs: TK*G (E+), IHG Plat Ambassador
Posts: 7,884
LH/LX also lowered their fares. I see them being a bit more expensive then QR (most likely because of a higher YQ):
It might be that QR will lower the fares but will be matched by competitors, that still offer perks...
PS. Fares are in EUR
1 LH /CL 1041 P 16DEC W CDG FRA 1755 1910 E90 0 /E
OPERATED BY LUFTH CITYLINE
1 LH 796 P 16DEC W FRA HKG 2215 1705 343 0 /E
2 LH 797 P 04JAN M HKG FRA 2345 0545 343 0 /E
2 LH /CL 1040 P 05JAN T FRA CDG 1600 1715 CR9 0 /E
OPERATED BY LUFTH CITYLINE
1ADT 1822.19 1822.19
OPERATED BY LUFTH CITYLINE
1 LH 796 P 16DEC W FRA HKG 2215 1705 343 0 /E
2 LH 797 P 04JAN M HKG FRA 2345 0545 343 0 /E
2 LH /CL 1040 P 05JAN T FRA CDG 1600 1715 CR9 0 /E
OPERATED BY LUFTH CITYLINE
1ADT 1822.19 1822.19
1 QR 40 R 16DEC W CDG DOH 1505 2330 351 0 /E
1 QR 818 R 17DEC Q DOH HKG 0245 1510 359 0 /E
2 QR 817 R 04JAN M HKG DOH 1905 2355 359 0 /E
2 QR 39 R 05JAN T DOH CDG 0755 1305 351 0 /E
1ADT 1735.44 1735.44
1 QR 818 R 17DEC Q DOH HKG 0245 1510 359 0 /E
2 QR 817 R 04JAN M HKG DOH 1905 2355 359 0 /E
2 QR 39 R 05JAN T DOH CDG 0755 1305 351 0 /E
1ADT 1735.44 1735.44
PS. Fares are in EUR
Nov 17, 2020 | 2:37 am
#247
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 2,723
Are we absolutely sure access to oneworld partner lounges is a given? Looking at the new Classic fares on QR's website for December travel out of London and lounge access is expressly excluded. I ask because if QR is not paying for access then the logical conclusion is access will be denied.
Either way, according to QR's latest fare FAQ: "If booked in Business Classic, complimentary lounge access is not included at any airport. This includes third-party contracted lounges and other Oneworld member airline lounges. However, if the passenger is a QR Gold/Platinum or Oneworld Sapphire/Emerald, the tier benefits will continue to apply and access will be granted."
Nov 17, 2020 | 2:49 am
#249
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
Programs: TK Elite Plus,BAEC GGL,ITA Executive, AFKL Gold,QR Gold,HH Diamond,Bonvoy Gold,ALL Gold
Posts: 14,186
Sorry if my reply is late: we've been told that Business Classic definitely doesn't include Oneworld lounge access unless of course the passenger has loungeworthy status. That said, a QR spokesman did allow that Business Class access restrictions at Oneworld airlines will be "gradually implemented", perhaps meaning that this is being still being communicated?
Either way, according to QR's latest fare FAQ: "If booked in Business Classic, complimentary lounge access is not included at any airport. This includes third-party contracted lounges and other Oneworld member airline lounges. However, if the passenger is a QR Gold/Platinum or Oneworld Sapphire/Emerald, the tier benefits will continue to apply and access will be granted."
Either way, according to QR's latest fare FAQ: "If booked in Business Classic, complimentary lounge access is not included at any airport. This includes third-party contracted lounges and other Oneworld member airline lounges. However, if the passenger is a QR Gold/Platinum or Oneworld Sapphire/Emerald, the tier benefits will continue to apply and access will be granted."
Although further updates on the alliance side is highly likely.
Nov 17, 2020 | 3:49 am
#250
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 2,723
Oh and also, not sure if this has been raised here as yet: U Class reward bookings are now categorised as 'Business Classic', which of course means no lounge access (which could knock a little shine off that 'reward') unless of course the passenger has loungeworthy QRPR/Oneworld status.
https://www.executivetraveller.com/n...-lounge-access
https://www.executivetraveller.com/n...-lounge-access
Nov 17, 2020 | 3:58 am
#251
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Wolverhampton
Programs: BA Silver, Hilton Diamond, Marriot Gold, Radisson Gold, Amex Platinum
Posts: 1,638
Oh and also, not sure if this has been raised here as yet: U Class reward bookings are now categorised as 'Business Classic', which of course means no lounge access (which could knock a little shine off that 'reward') unless of course the passenger has loungeworthy QRPR/Oneworld status.
https://www.executivetraveller.com/n...-lounge-access
https://www.executivetraveller.com/n...-lounge-access
Nov 17, 2020 | 4:02 am
#252
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
Programs: TK Elite Plus,BAEC GGL,ITA Executive, AFKL Gold,QR Gold,HH Diamond,Bonvoy Gold,ALL Gold
Posts: 14,186
Passengers who've upgraded their ticket to Business Class ( either with miles or via the discounted cash upgrade option ) was not eligible for lounge through their travel class.
Although, still they have access to oneworld partner operated lounges and access to any lounge through their status.
Nov 17, 2020 | 4:12 am
#253
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Exec Club, SIA KrisFlyer, Qantas FF, Emirates Skywards
Posts: 1,893
Oh and also, not sure if this has been raised here as yet: U Class reward bookings are now categorised as 'Business Classic', which of course means no lounge access (which could knock a little shine off that 'reward') unless of course the passenger has loungeworthy QRPR/Oneworld status.
https://www.executivetraveller.com/n...-lounge-access
https://www.executivetraveller.com/n...-lounge-access
Nov 17, 2020 | 4:36 am
#254
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,135
I have an upcoming itinerary that includes a mixture of R and I fares - that should be fun at the AM lounge reception in DOH.
Nov 17, 2020 | 5:02 am
#255
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: South East, UK
Programs: BA Gold / GfL, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,466
I do agree that this move will be a disaster for QR in the medium-term unless they change policy. I think they could get away with the seating change (as BA did, albeit with some negative publicity at the start), but dropping lounges or making some business passengers pay for lounge access is just a PR disaster in the making for a number of reasons:
- Some travelers will not notice that the fare does not include lounge access (I note they do now say "Lounge access not included" in the Classic/Comfort/Elite fare select page, but it would make it more impactful if they put a red X through the icon to highlight it's different to the other fares)
- Corporate travellers will often have to book the lowest business fare - I'm not sure if it will be obvious when booking through corporate booking tools that lounge access will not be provided
- Both of the above points will result in lines of bemused travellers at lounges, followed by Facebook/Twitter exchanges where they tell all their friends and followers how cheap QR is by not providing lounge access for business class tickets! This will impact the perception of QR's business class offering overall
- It's previously been an issue in Doha with blockages at the Al Mourjan lounge escalators just from the lengthy explanations as to why people with OW access have to use the separate Business/First lounges, but it will be many times worse going forward with this new policy! So it won't just impact the experience of those denied access, but also those allowed access.
- Travelling QR results in a forced transit in Doha, so it's not just losing lounge access at the start of the journey, but also the mid-point transit
- If I knew I would not have lounge access I will be much more inclined to arrive at the airport as late as possible - if more passengers do this it will put more strain on the check-in and baggage processes and could have an impact on QR punctuality, etc