St Regis SF - down from 90K to 60K

W Bali - down from 90K to 60K

Massive increase in value of points!!!!!!!

It is narcissistic and selfish--yet not surprising in the current political climate--that some herein are only going to concern themselves with the specific data points that apply to them and ignore the entire global data set that applies to everyone. How satisfying that must be for them. How tragic it is in reality. Such is martyrdom.

When only YOUR few specific properties of concern go up in cost, that IS NOT a massive devaluation. That is a specific devaluation for only you. Suck it up and stop your complaining already. Stay somewhere else or feel free to move to Hilton. The rest of us with perspective are laughing. The Marriott program isn't about one or two properties or one or two locations. It's global.

When most of the properties go up in cost, that IS a big devaluation. That hasn't happened here. Not even close. Well over 60% of all properties are going down in cost. That some properties have gone up in cost is a fact; that more properties have gone down in cost is also a fact.

When most of the properties go up in cost by a lot of points, that could be construed as a massive devaluation. That hasn't happened here. Not even close. Just because a property YOU love goes up a lot in points doesn't mean it's a massive devaluation. It just means it's a massive devaluation for your favorite property (probably in Orlando!).

When your favorite property is in Orlando, I'm afraid you've got bigger problems.

Reading posts by some in this thread feels a lot like watching selfish and/or ignorant people--so concerned only about what matters to them and no one else--making broad, largely false statements that ignore the overall facts with cherry picked data points to feel better about and increase their own martyrdom. Drawing false conclusions based on cherry picked data points to suit what they want or need to believe while consistently ignoring the obvious bigger data set that shows how wrong they are.

Hey, this isn't Fox News.

Significant hits to the Vacation Club/Vistana timeshares. Vistana is probably because it was sold off.

The Westin at Beaver Creek had been a steal during ski season. Thought it was actually Peak at 48K in ski season, so really only a 12K increase.

Thanks for helping to make my earlier point.

Marriott certainly has devalued the travel packages a bit, depending on which range and categories you're talking about. I like this analysis for a decent overall summary:

https://frequentmiler.boardingarea.c...957.1521430785

That being said, Marriott Travel Packages are but one part of the overall Marriott program. Your focus on one element to the exclusion of all others is the problem. The SPG airline points transfer remains exactly the same--but with even more eligible airlines than before. Just as some hotels awards will cost more (between 15-20% depending on which analysis you choose), there are far more hotels that will cost the same or even less (around 70-80% depending on which analysis you choose). There are future category 8 hotels that will cost less for all SPG members starting in January 2019. There are aspirational future category 7 and 8 hotels that if booked between August and December 2018 will cost ridiculously less than before for everyone. There are aspirational future category 8 all-suite hotels from the SPG portfolio that will cost ridiculously less then before for everyone--from now on and forever more until the program changes again.

There are some devaluations. There are far more revaluations that improve things.

Bold emphasis mine - what does this mean? Credit card points have doubled on the low end?

Precisely this.

Your lack of self-awareness is kind of funny. You're just as hysterical as the skeptics (of which I was and remain one). I agree with you that it's not a massive devaluation (as I incorrectly predicted it would be). But, it is from a practical perspective for many of us here, a devaluation in that high end properties on the whole seem to be getting more expensive. Obviously many MR members are content redeeming 15,000 points for a Fairfield Inn on I-95. Most members of this forum are not those members. Big cities are getting hit hardest, just as many predicted; and the list released today doesn't answer the peak/off-peak questions that will truly determine how much of a devaluation this will be.

Statements such as these are a big part of the problem. I have no lack of self-awareness. I have never been hysterical--especially when it comes to the Marriott-Starwood merger and new loyalty program. I've been anything but hysterical, I'm afraid.

Wonderful. Thanks for your candid admission.

No doubt, for Marriott members who redeem for Ritz-Carlton properties, 10 current Tier 5 RC properties becoming new Cat 8 will be getting more expensive by 15,000 MR points--or only 5000 SPG points with some perspective. A total of 16 RC properties will be getting more expensive by 10,000 MR points--or just 3,333 SPG points with some perspective. A total of 17 RC properties will be getting more expensive by 5,000 MR points--or just 1,666 SPG points with some perspective.

But a total of 36 RC properties will not change at all. A total of 10 RC properties will decrease by 5,000 MR points, and a total of 5 RC properties will decrease by 10,000 MR points.

So 43 RC properties increase in cost, and 36 properties don't change, and 15 RC properties decrease in cost.

At the same time, Marriott/RC members now have access to St Regis and LuxColl properties, including the all suite StR and LuxColl hotels that now cost a ton less than they did under SPG (which used to double or triple the points cost).

So it's a devaluation for MR/RC elites who redeem only at the highest end RC properties.

Of course. those same MR/RC elites who redeem at the highest end RC properties also get the benefit of 24 StR properties that decrease in cost by at least 5,000 MR points compared to now, too...and another 9 StR properties decreasing by 1,000 MR points. That doesn't include the 7 StR properties not changing cost at all or the mere 4 StR properties that increase in cost. (The StR Rome increases the most, by 25,000 points...coincidentally just as it is completing a massive renovation that makes it one of the most spectacular properties in the city and world. In contrast to my favorite US city hotel, the StR San Francisco, which drops an incredible 30,000 points...coincidentally just as it is about to start a massive renovation in winter 2018!)

Of course, those same MR/RC elites who redeem at the highest end RC properties also get the benefit of 45 LuxColl properties that decrease by 1,000-5,000 MR points, not to mention the 23 LuxColl properties that don't change in cost at all. There are 22 LuxColl properties that increase by 500-5,000 MR points, and only 10 LuxColl properties that increase by more than 10,000 MR points.

Sorry, that isn't a big devaluation overall when compared to the entire Marriott program--not even with regard to only the entire luxury portfolio.

It's worth mention that for SPG elites, all of the above hotels cost barely more. Even the Tier 5 RC properties cost barely more from the SPG perspective--and less than the top StR and LuxColl properties do now. it's largely a revaluation for SPG elites.

There always are some winners and losers whenever there are changes. That you see yourself as a loser doesn't discount the simple fact that there still are far more winners and those who break even, even among those who redeem with RC, StR, and Lux Coll and at properties in the big cities.

On the old Marriott Visa, unbonused spend earns 1 pt/dollar.

On the new Visa, unbonused spend earns 2/$

Of course, unbonused spend on the SPG Amex drops from 3/$ to 2/$.

49 out of 61 new Cat 8 properties are former SPG properties. (80%)

96 out of 150 Cat 7 properties are former SPG properties. (64%)

Seems like they adopted almost entire structure of SPG category to the new combined loyalty program which is, to me, is a good news.

JW Marriott Maldives is supposed to open in Jan, 2019. But it is not on the list released today. Why would that be?

This might have been asked before. Do we know if we can make reservation on points between 8/1/18 and 12/31/18 for stay after 1/1/19? Can we make changes post 1/1/19 using and not pay the difference?

Bolding mine. I think there you have your answer. Few if any unopened hotels are listed.

No on should be surprised that Marriott's priority now is to reveal category assignments for current hotels in its portfolio within its previously stated June window. All new hotels are notoriously delayed for opening, and the unopened JW Maldives (like most unopened hotels) may not yet have been assigned a category as a result. Patience is a virtue to be appreciated here. As with all soon to be but as of yet unopened hotels.

Lost in all of this discussion about the changing values of the high-end properties is how this rate shuffle affects everyone's Cat. 1-5 free night certificates. Well, it looks like they just got a whole lot more valuable. The tightening up of the categories means that a bunch of hotels have come down to cat. 5 - indeed, sorting the list by category, the first cat. 6 hotel is on page 22 (of 23, showing 300 properties/page). So our certs can be used now pretty much everywhere but the most luxurious properties. Will Marriott pull a fast one and change the cert categories? I don't think so, because of the e-mail us Canadian SPG Amex holders received today: amongst the changes and adjustments they are making to the card, they are replacing the free weekend night with an annual free night that will be redeemable at properties with a redemption value of up to 35,000 points - the cat. 5 level. So for me, that's a huge boost in value.

Maybe if you are SPG loyalist and will be getting your points tripled on August 1, you don't consider the new award chart a major devaluation. But those of us who have a lot of points vested in MR won't be getting their points tripled and have to wait for the additional bonus points to kick in, so we will be hurting for a while.

For example, just about every JW Marriott resort in the USA is going up 10,000 points August 1 and that increase will be 20,000 points during peak times in 2019. That means 60,000 more points for a week, and 120,000 more points during peak times for bookings next year. That's a 25% and 50% increase respectively!

For London hotels, it is even worse. The four most popular London hotels for points stays that are discussed on this board are increasing to Category 7. JW Marriott Grosvenor House, London Marriott County Hall, London Marriott Park Lane and the London Marriott Grosvenor Square will all require 90,000 more points for a week for bookings after August 1 and 150,000 more points for a week starting in 2019. That's a 33% and 55% increase respectively.

While Marriott still has not defined peak times, it is pretty much a guarantee that popular booking times like Spring Break and the summer months in Europe will be considered peak! I really don't want to take my family on vacation to London in February or Palm Desert in July when its a 115 degrees. So yeah, I do consider it major devaluation! We are talking about the value of points in my MR account today, not that points I may earn a couple of years from now!