CJKatl

Yes, this is very common. Marriott bases points redemptions on how popular a property is for points redemption, not on the price per night or any perceived level of the hotel, so what happens is when a property goes up people shift to a different property so redemptions go down so the points needed for redemption go down.

Example: Right now the lowest redemption in Bangkok is the Soi 11 Aloft. It is a loud, not all that great property in a crowded street with some questionable activities (street, not the property) but it is inexpensive for both cash and redemptions. Many people want the cheapest option, so it becomes popular for redemptions. Going forward, it will be a Cat 3. Both the 4P and CY are Cat 2 and much better hotels. Based on this fewer people will book Aloft on points, although it will remain the cheapest cash option. The next time categories are evaluated there will likely be fewer Aloft redemptions it will likely fall back to Cat 2. The very excellent Soi 57 FS dropped to Cat 3 making it less than the very similar Marq, Ren and new FS (and even the JW) so redemptions will likely tick up and it will likely go up a Cat going forward.

Many of us can name properties that tick up or down every year.

bhrubin

Marriott points always were worth much less than SPG points. Blaming SPG for this fact is needless. Merging with SPG means Marriott had to deal with SPG elites--and it turns out those SPG elites are quite valuable (and substantially more valuable per capita, I'd imagine) to Marriott's bottom line. So Marriott made sure to value the SPG points as much as was reasonably anticipated by everyone who follows points valuations.

There are 10 JW Marriotts in the USA going up by 10,000 or more MR points (almost all of those will cost 50,000 MR points). There are 5 JWs in the USA going up by 5,000 MR points. There are 6 JWs in the USA not changing cost. There are 4 JWs in the USA going down in cost.

There also are 6 Ritz-Carlton properties in the USA going down by 5,000 or more MR points to 35,000 points.

There also are 12 Autograph properties in the USA going down by 5,000 or more MR points to 35,000 MR points.

There also are 16 Renaissance properties in the USA going down by 5,000 or more MR points to 35,000 MR points.

There also are numerous Design, Luxury Collection, Tribute Portfolio properties in the USA going down by 5,000 or more MR points to 35,000 points.

Those are viable options that now are less pricey to you. You win some, and you lose some.

I don't feel much sympathy, sorry. There are just as many if not more hotels that cost less or the same than those that cost more. You ignore all those that cost less or the same and yet are of reasonably similar quality.

There are 15 London hotels that will cost less--compared with 11 London hotels that will cost more. There are 9 London hotels that will cost the same.

I again don't feel much sympathy. There are far more hotels that cost less or the same than cost more.

You're entitled to think that Marriott is becoming Accor, but that doesn't make it true. Your complaints are unfounded for the vast majority of people who stay at Marriott properties even in the specifc arenas and markets you mention, as clearly illustrated above.

OU812

I think I posted something similar back in April when the new award chart first came out. But another way to look at the new award chart is to determine the number of nights required to earn a week at a Marriott property:
Assumptions:

• Platinum Premier
• $250 average room rate per night
• Stay at full service Marriott - 10 points per dollar
• Member takes $10 F&B voucher
• Mega bonus and credit card bonuses not included

Under present award chart:
Category 9 - 45,000 points per night - 270,000 points for a week - 72 nights (270,000 /$250 X 10 X 50% bonus)
Category 8 - 40,000 points per night - 240,000 points for a week - 64 nights (340,000/$250 X 10 X 50% bonus)

Under the new award chart:
Category 6 - Standard 50,000 points per night - 300,000 points for a week - 68 nights (300,000/$250 X 10 X 75% bonus)
Category 6 - Peak 60,000 points per night - 360,000 points for a week - 82 nights (360,000/$250 X 10 X 75% bonus)
Category 7 - Standard 60,000 points per night - 360,000 points for a week - 82 nights (360,000/$250 X 10 X 75% bonus)
Category 7 - Peak 70,000 points per night - 420,000 points for a week - 96 nights (420,000/$250 X 10 X 75% bonus)

That means after January 2019, MR Platinum Premier trying to take his family on a London vacation must spend an additional 24 days/6 weeks on the road to earn enough points to make this happen.

Kacee

delete. sorry.

1fan

What are Peak times? Until we know this hard to say the extent of this new chart. Hawaii could be 80% peak

bhrubin

Wow.

So far, way too many people have predicted wrongly the doom and gloom on just about every benefit and element of the new Marriott program. And no one seems to be learning that Marriott, for the overwhelming most part, has been very fair and reasonable--even generous on quite a few elements.

The fear-mongering has been wrong almost every time. So why continue to do it?

Just like all the prognostications of doom and gloom and fear-mongering before about category changes that would be disastrous--which today turn out to have been ridiculously wrong--now we have the prognostication of doom and gloom and fear-mongering for peak period redemptions.

It seems that cynicism knows no bounds here. Perhaps people should learn to give Marriott a bit of the benefit of the doubt. I'd say Marriott has earned it.

CPRich

3 of 6 JW's with "Resort" in the name are going up 10,000 points. 50% is "just about every"?

You're using 0.087% of the properties to support your assertion that you "consider the new award chart a major devaluation."? Really?

CPRich

I assume you accidentally left out of your Assumptions that by "London vacation" you mean staying at only 4 of the program's 35 properties in London (77% of the others have same or lower points requirements)? And you're only allowed to stay when the peak rate is, despite those dates being unknown.

If your personal redemption universe is limited to 0.058% of the program properties, and only on unannounced peak dates then yes, it does not work out well for you.

But thanks for the reminder that elite bonuses have been raised, so the 3.1% improvement in current points balance value is actually significantly better for future earning.

CPRich

MR Cat 1-3 and SPG Cat 1-3 combined went up 6.3%

MR Cat 6-7, RC T2-5, and SPG Cat 7-9 combined went down 1.2%

Can you share your "practical perspective" that makes -1.2% worse than +6.3%?

cfischer

+1. Nice to have this now to book what goes up now and what goes down you book later. Definitely planning for 2019 right now!

CIT85

MR email this evening on what we have all been waiting for. Categories 1-7 for all 6500 hotels starting Aug. 1, plus Cat 8 hotels at Cat 7 points until 2019.

https://points-redemption.marriott.c...&lk=1000280119

UpgradeMe

New Marriott Award rates released

EuropeanPete

Surprised that nobody has commented on my immediate observation which is that a number of the SPG "5000 point savings" were actually SPG all suite hotels (W Maldives, Al Maha, St Regis Bali, St Regis Maldives, etc.) which would actually represent a 50%+ saving on current rates. I'm slightly skeptical given the claim that the cost has only slightly decreased (when it has plummeted), but for me would mean that even if the programme resulted in a 10-20% devaluation in a year or so I would still end up on top.

My second observation is that by and large Marriott properties are those which have seen a devaluation. While I would appreciate many Marriott Rewards members will not be happy, I would be very happy if that meant a shift from narrow dollars back on points to a greater investment in recognizing loyalty on a more strategic level (Ambassador programme, superior on site treatment, more reliable troubleshooting, etc.).

lexdevil

I am not male, but I am a PP who takes her family on vacation to London every summer using MR points and Travel Package certificates. I tend to stay at the current Category 9 hotels, so these changes will cost me more points (1/3 more for many stays, and more during peak season pricing). At the same time, I think that they have made the redemption rates far more rational.

It simply made no sense that the Grosvenor House and Park Lane cost the same in points as Marble Arch and St. Pancras (which has a great lounge, but usually offers the rooms one can get for points at a rate half that of the Grosvenor House and Park Lane). It also made no sense when they elevated the London Edition to a Ritz Tier 2, making it cost 25% more in points than the Grosvenor House. I love the Edition (for its location), but it has no lounge and limited Platinum benefits. I stayed there when it was a Tier 1, but I just could not justify the additional points when it went to Tier 2.

Things make sense now. The Grosvenor House, Park Lane, and London Edition are priced the same. The St. Pancras comes in just a bit below that. Regents Park, Maida Vale, and Kensington are a bigger step down, which is where they should be. There are a number of lower priced options (Residence Inn or MOXY) should I need one, though I would probably stay at the quirky Town Hall, in that case. It's loaded with hipster pretension and it's out of the way for tourists, but I like the East End and the walk to Brick Lane. At 58% of the price of my usual choices, it starts to make sense. And if it is possible to use points to upgrade to a two-bedroom apartment, it becomes very attractive.

CPRich

Observed based on ...?

In aggregate, MR property redemption rates fell 4.3%. SPG properties fell 1.2%.

29% of MR properties are more expensive, 39% of SPG properties are more expensive.