Mar 24, 2015, 6:09 am
Last edit by: irishguy28
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============================================
Germanwings Flight 4U 9525 (Barcelona - Dusseldorf) crashed on 24 March 2015, coming down in the Alps near Barcelonette France
Aircraft involved is Airbus A320 reg D-AIPX. It was delivered to Lufthansa in 1991 and passed to Germanwings in 2001. It received routine maintenance at DUS the day before the crash (performed by Lufthansa Technik) and had its last major overhaul ( C-Check) in the summer of 2013. Lufthansa have said the plane was in 'perfect' condition.
Circumstances
It is very likely that the aircraft was deliberately crashed by the co-pilot Andreas Lubwitz
As per Germanwings press conference held 1400 on 24th March:
The aircraft flew from DUS to BCN on the morning of the crash
The flight left BCN at 1001 local time, it reached crusing altitude of 38000 at 1045 but remained there for only one minute before beginning a descent which lasted 8 minutes and ended in the crash.
ATC permission was not asked for the descent and it is unclear whether or not the crew were in ATC contact and under what circumstances an emergency was declared.
Subsequent reports suggest there was no communication between the crew and ATC after the aircraft began to descend.
The weather was good at the time of the crash:
Surface weather near where they started the descent:
METAR LFTH 240800Z AUTO 07012KT 9999 NSC 15/08 Q1008
METAR LFTH 240830Z AUTO 07012KT 9999 NSC 15/09 Q1008
METAR LFTH 240900Z AUTO 08016KT 9999 FEW035 SCT130 15/08 Q1008
That's basically unrestricted visibility at the surface.
Posted by Captainmiles Post #156 in this thread
US govt sources say no evidence of terrorism (reported on sky news uk)
Germanwings/Lufthansa official response
Germanwings press conference announced for 1500 local time, to be held in Cologne
Press conference reports: Lufthansa group employees enroute to crash site, families of victims being informed, crisis center set up at DUS airport
New flight number have been announced
4U9440 DUS0645 0855BCN EQV
4U9441 BCN0935 1155DUS EQV
Relatives of victims have been transported to the crash area by Lufthansa
Lufthansa press conference held at 1330 GMT on 26 March stated that the plane was most likely brought down deliberately by the co-pilot.
Video recording of the press conference (26 March):
In German
In English (simultaneous translation)
Victims
Latest reports are 144 passengers and 6 crew aboard, Spanish government report 45 Spanish nationals, French government reports 0 French nationals, German government reports there are some German victims but numbers not known (German wings press conference reports 67), Sky News UK reports Turkish nationals on board. There were 2 babies, one of the belonging to a woman from Manchester and the other is German, the child of opera singer Maria Radner who was travelling on the flight with her husband.
Two of the victims were Australians - a mother and her adult son from Victoria.
Two victims from Argentina
Three from Great Britain
One Israeli
Two Colombians
One Belgian
One Dutch
Two Iranians
Three Americans
Two Japanese
Three Mexicans
The German victims include 16 pupils and 2 teachers from Joseph Koenig Gymnasium (high school) at Haltern Am See, they were returning from an exchange visit to Spain.
Crew comprised 4 cabin crew and 2 flight deck. The captain had been with Lufthansa group for 10 years and had over 6000 hours on this plane type.
The co-pilot is widely reported to have joined Germanwings straight out of training in 2013 and to have had 630 hours of experience.
French rescue services believe there are no survivors.
Emergency contact numbers
From Germany 0800 1133 5577
From Spain 902 400 012
0049 30 5000 3000
The names of the victims will be published once their families have been informed.
Crash site
The crash site has been identified by helicopters, it is not accessible by road and is around 2 and a half hours walk from the nearest road (reported Sky News UK). It is at an altitude of around 2000m. Search and rescue teams are en-route. There may be an avalanche risk which could hamper rescue efforts. Rescuers are assembling at Seyne-Les-Alpes.
Sky news UK are reporting that a helicopter has landed near the crash site. They have confirmed no survivors and have reported the largest piece of debris to be about car sized. The debris field is about 200 square meters in size. See also http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/24557269-post183.html
Investigation - confirmed information
Large numbers of French investigators are on site, efforts have been made to secure the site against outside interference.
The cockpit voice recorder (CVR) has been recovered and taken for investigation at French BEA. It is damaged but functional. Voices can be heard on the recording but it is unclear if they are those of the flight crew.
BEA is working in cooperation with German BFU (Bundesstelle fr Flugunfalluntersuchung), Airbus and CFM.
The aircraft was complete until impact - there was no midair breakup
"Germanwings Pilot Was Locked Out of Cockpit Before Crash in France"
New York Times reports that one of the two pilots was locked out of the cockpit during the descent: You can hear he is trying to smash the door down. http://nyti.ms/1HC7g9i
French prosecuters believe that the crash was caused by the deliberate actions of the co-pilot, he is thought to have locked the captain out of the cockpit and then to have deliberately crashed the aircraft.
Video of cockpit operation and manual override switch to block door from being opened externally. From The Guardian.
A locked door is opened by a flight crew inside the cockpit but can also be unlocked by cabin crew entering a keycode from the outside. Crew inside the cockpit can manually override it to keep a door locked for up to five minutes.
On 6 May 2015, the BEA released its preliminary report.
Reliable Sources
AV Herald page on the crash.
FlightRadar24 flight path map
flightware tracking log
BBC News "What we know so far"
Germanwings / 4U 9525 A320 Alpine plane crash 24 Mar 2015
Mar 26, 2015 | 7:56 am
#646
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Between AMS and BRU
Posts: 8,854
Mar 26, 2015 | 8:01 am
#647
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: LHR- ish
Programs: MUCCI, BA Blue
Posts: 4,295
Wiki updated following press conference 
I can't believe that anyone could do this. How bad a state must you be in that you are willing to kill your colleagues and your passengers in order to end your own life?
I can't believe that anyone could do this. How bad a state must you be in that you are willing to kill your colleagues and your passengers in order to end your own life?
Mar 26, 2015 | 8:01 am
#648
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: between EWR and JFK
Posts: 38
Listening to the press conference, it seems as if they are trying to keep things as calm as they can considering the circumstances. This American reporter (I'm assuming from their accent) made a little bit of a fool of herself.
Mar 26, 2015 | 8:01 am
#649
Join Date: May 2013
Location: New York
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott LTPP, Hertz Five Star
Posts: 1,237
An incredibly sad situation and far beyond what we expected. [removed line that even in jest is liable for misunderstanding] it's pretty shocking how quickly they were able to come to the conclusion of pilot suicide with confidence.
Logically I am sure they will mandate the two people in the cockpit at any given time, curious to see if they take it a step further and mandate flight deck door open (with beverage cart/secondary gate blocking passenger cabin access during that time) when one of the pilots is out. The situation is so fringe compared to the likelihood of a hijacking, and if the two person rule is adhered to, likely of no extra utility compared to the two person rule.
Earlier articles that named the younger copilot seemed to indicate he was living his dream. I wonder what motive the pilot had - impulsive suicide? Mental illness? Monetary (e.g. FedEx Flight 705, even in 1994 the payout for death on the job as a crew member was $2.5 life insurance, so one Fedex employee deadheaded and attempted to hijack the plane)?
Logically I am sure they will mandate the two people in the cockpit at any given time, curious to see if they take it a step further and mandate flight deck door open (with beverage cart/secondary gate blocking passenger cabin access during that time) when one of the pilots is out. The situation is so fringe compared to the likelihood of a hijacking, and if the two person rule is adhered to, likely of no extra utility compared to the two person rule.
Earlier articles that named the younger copilot seemed to indicate he was living his dream. I wonder what motive the pilot had - impulsive suicide? Mental illness? Monetary (e.g. FedEx Flight 705, even in 1994 the payout for death on the job as a crew member was $2.5 life insurance, so one Fedex employee deadheaded and attempted to hijack the plane)?
Mar 26, 2015 | 8:04 am
#650
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Interesting live question and answer session with the CEOs of Lufthansa and Germanwings, thanks to Bluewin (Swisscom) in Switzerland. In German only:
http://www.bluewin.ch/de/news/vermis...fenbar-da.html
EDIT: sorry, it just came to and end
http://www.bluewin.ch/de/news/vermis...fenbar-da.html
EDIT: sorry, it just came to and end
Last edited by Concerto; Mar 26, 2015 at 8:09 am Reason: updated info
Mar 26, 2015 | 8:10 am
#651
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Mar 26, 2015 | 8:10 am
#652
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Posts: 29,908
OR
NBC asking about the flight attendant to be in the cabin when one of the two pilots leaves the cockpit .
I am just going by what I am reading not watching the press conference
Mar 26, 2015 | 8:12 am
#653
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: between EWR and JFK
Posts: 38
I meant NBC, who then asked questions that the spokesperson for the airline said "as I said in German..." (which I can understand the reporter might not have understood) but then saying "as I've said twice before..." in clear English to another one of their questions which had already been covered, both in English and German. No need to speak just to get your $.02 in in my opinion.
Mar 26, 2015 | 8:14 am
#654
Join Date: May 2013
Location: New York
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott LTPP, Hertz Five Star
Posts: 1,237
When you compare the number of attempted hijackings versus the number of pilot suicides, it doesn't make sense not to give the captain a way to lock out the cabin crew if he's conscious. Now maybe they enhance this system where lockout requires a switch to be pressed by both pilots at the exact same time within the cabin to prevent an emergency code (and wide enough apart where one individual cannot press both switches at once).
Mar 26, 2015 | 8:14 am
#655
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southern Bavaria, Germany
Programs: LH Blue, BA Blue, Hyatt Gold
Posts: 1,517
BTW fingerprinting is not only humiliating as it was reserved for criminals for a long time. It also can be forged as the pictures of the fingerprint of German secretary of defence as can be found in many media releases in Germany:
http://www.hardwareluxx.de/index.php...bdruckes.html#
The best way would be that the two pilots have to be within the secure cockpit area during the flight. Some changes to the floor plan with a cockpit crew lavatory would do it.
Additionally the purser should have some kind of emergency door opening code or device.
Mar 26, 2015 | 8:15 am
#656
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
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Posts: 62,948
Has this been posted? Flightradar24 tweeted that:-
"Analysis of Flightradar24 ADS-B/ModeS data: Autopilot was manually changed from 38,000 to 100 ft at 09:30:55"
https://twitter.com/flightradar24/st...73962274328576
"Analysis of Flightradar24 ADS-B/ModeS data: Autopilot was manually changed from 38,000 to 100 ft at 09:30:55"
https://twitter.com/flightradar24/st...73962274328576
Last edited by NewbieRunner; Mar 26, 2015 at 8:36 am Reason: abbreviating last name in keeping with German practice
Mar 26, 2015 | 8:17 am
#657
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: New York, Paris
Programs: AA ExPlat 4MM, AA Life Plat, Lufthansa FT, Delta Basic
Posts: 1,593
This is probably a case arising from an opportunity: The perpetrator waiting for a chance to be alone... not on that particular flight but whenever. It could have been a deay earlier or a week later. Sick Russian Roulette...
Mar 26, 2015 | 8:18 am
#658
Join Date: Jun 2013
Programs: BAEC Silver, Alitalia Freccia Alata, Turkish Elite... oh yeah, and of course: Starbucks Gold :P
Posts: 235
Interesting live question and answer session with the CEOs of Lufthansa and Germanwings, thanks to Bluewin (Swisscom) in Switzerland. In German only:
http://www.bluewin.ch/de/news/vermis...fenbar-da.html
EDIT: sorry, it just came to and end
http://www.bluewin.ch/de/news/vermis...fenbar-da.html
EDIT: sorry, it just came to and end
Mar 26, 2015 | 8:28 am
#659
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southern Bavaria, Germany
Programs: LH Blue, BA Blue, Hyatt Gold
Posts: 1,517
Some acts of suicide, particularly male suicide, can be impulsive. I've years in the field (including working with a well-known law enforcement agency in the U.S. experiencing a suicide "surge" to a rate of approximately 750/100,000/year - when the regional norm was perhaps 15/100,000 p.a.) and have seen this. Take a younger man with some morbid fascinations or fantasies, add some very high stressors he feels are unsolvable, a highly lethal weapon at hand with immediate, irreversible results or means and you have a firearm, a Golden Gate Bridge - or an A320.
Unfortunately, there is no such thing as 100% safety, 100% screening. We live with, and manage, our risks every day. The risks of this kind of occurrence is truly infinitesimally small, yet it appears to have happened - more than once - and the survivors are in need of consoling and our respect.
Let's do that by not getting too lurid in our descriptions, too wild with our theorizing, and refraining from posting what might be upsetting to survivors (relatives, friends, etc. of the dead passengers). Having worked with survivors of the deaths and suicides of others, let's show some awareness and compassion for these many affected apparently by the incredibly deadly act of First Officer Andreas L., 28.
Unfortunately, there is no such thing as 100% safety, 100% screening. We live with, and manage, our risks every day. The risks of this kind of occurrence is truly infinitesimally small, yet it appears to have happened - more than once - and the survivors are in need of consoling and our respect.
Let's do that by not getting too lurid in our descriptions, too wild with our theorizing, and refraining from posting what might be upsetting to survivors (relatives, friends, etc. of the dead passengers). Having worked with survivors of the deaths and suicides of others, let's show some awareness and compassion for these many affected apparently by the incredibly deadly act of First Officer Andreas L., 28.
Appreciated.
Last edited by NewbieRunner; Mar 26, 2015 at 9:32 am