I think it's more an issue of experience rather than culture.

The Japanese were often rude back in the day, and I'm sure Americans tourists had an awful reputation when they began invading Europe.

That said, I do find some Chinese tourists to be incredibly rude and uncouth.

Rather fitting, considering how that thread ended...

It's interesting...we spent a good part of this summer in Europe. Several cities and countries, including both traditional tourist cities (Paris, Venice) and less traditional spots, visiting friends in rural France, Slovenia, and Italy. Whenever I travel, I always tend to observe the behavior of other tourists and locals alike...in part because I attempt to behave well and in part because it's fun.

One thing that I found interesting, and I've noticed on several of my more recent trips abroad: the Americans have generally been reasonably well-dressed, very polite, quiet, and generally in control of their liquor when they drank. I saw a lot of "bro tanks" and quite a few drunken guys at cafes/pubs, but they were generally tourists from the European region, not Americans. Where we met Canadians, Americans, or even the occasional Australian, they tended to be families or maybe an older couple traveling without the kids. Pretty tame.

So I think the Chinese are beginning to go through what we did in the 1970's and 1980's. Millions of Americans suddenly had access to affordable jet travel, so a bunch of us went to Europe and were Grade-A a**holes when we got there. Now we've had a full generation to think about what makes an "ugly American", so we are (for the most part) a little more self-conscious when we travel.

Now the Chinese have a similar effect: a rising middle class, tens of millions of people suddenly with access to affordable international travel. It might take 'em a generation to get it sorted out, which would make them no different from us.

One thing is for certain: it's a huge market, and I hope we can attract a lot of those tourists to the U.S. I hope we - and this includes our airports, airlines, border security, etc. - aren't such a**holes to them that they decide to go elsewhere.

Anyone over 55 gets 10% off on Tuesdays. @:-)

What's their North American alternative source for 1000 discounted designer labels in one concentrated area like Palm Desert or NE NewJersey? Toronto?

Well, now that you mention it, we do kind of have 'em over a barrel, don't we?

As did I... And as I posted here https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trav...survey-14.html the Chinese in Paris tend to travel in groups, with little interaction with locals. My friend of Chinese descent did have a few tussles over high end bags, but laughed off the behaviour of her 'family members'. In contrast, most of the really bad behaviour I see and inappropriate dress comes from North Americans. Travel in groups brings its own challenges, but generally they still tend to keep to themselves.

It's generally accepted that the Chinese are saving Paris tourism right now, and they are seen as far less an evil than some other types of tourist.

I don't think that most Chinese tourists expect or demand that people in other languages speak Mandarin, or that signage is in Chinese characters. And as posted earlier, at least the Chinese government recognises issues and is trying to educate their citizens on cultural differences and expectations. (I will say too that most Chinese tourist groups I encounter seem so happy and excited, which is a good thing)

Look at the last few pages of the tipping thread (or many other threads on FT) as an example of the type of behaviour which can make one a badly behaved tourist. Any time I read someone posting 'I paid XXX for my trip, therefore they should do YYY!' or 'I am the customer; they should do what I want!' I cringe. A few missing pieces of cutlery don't bother me in the same way.

I think that ship has sailed. Look around FT for people who say they won't visit the US for the reasons you list, not to mention how many people I know in real life who say the same. I saw how TSA treated groups of Japanese tourists at LAS more than once, and cringed. While the US government and travel industry may be focussing on visas to improve tourism, they need to fix that impression of point of entry first. Waiting 2-3 hours at immigration, and then being yelled at by TSOs before boarding a connecting flight doesn't make a good first impression on visitors.

Be careful; the US doesn't have the edge anymore. Companies such as McArthur Glen and Chic Outlet Shops have a string of high end outlet malls across Europe, with brands appealing to Japanese and Chinese tastes. Deutsche Welle actually had a program on the very subject of Chinese tourists starting to discover corners of Germany (which has a number of such high end outlet malls)

S. Cal Outlets plus Vegas plus Grand Canyon will trump Euro malls for many moons.

But I also didn't run across any English-speaking travelers demanding that locals in other countries speak English either... Granted, in many places people with jobs that interact with tourists do speak some English. But we also spoke quite a bit of French and a little bit of broken Italian along the way, too. People seem to get along: I never observed language differences as a source of tension or pushiness on the part of the visitor, perhaps a little bit of mild inconvenience at the most. (Certainly no one angrily demanding an English-language menu or anything like that.) If there was tension between two non-English speakers, it wasn't noticeable to me.

No disagreement there... (Although fixing some of the most arduous visa processes could be helpful to many people since these things tend to be reciprocal...)

I read that an, in fairness, that was a single poster AND about Disneyland. I confess to not understanding the impulse to visit Disneylands in other countries.

At least here in Southern California, there are tons of tourists from China and, among my friends in China, a trip (or multiple trips) to the US is high on their travel list. There is a huge middle class in China -- far larger than the entire population of the US -- and those people do not tend to travel in tour groups.

15 years ago I preferred outlet shopping in Europe to the US - somewhere like Bicester Village, it had stores I actually wanted to buy from, and was uncrowded on a week day, with staff giving you attentive service.

The outlet malls I have been to in the US and Canada are not nearly as pleasant - there are far more 'mall' stores, albeit the outlet versions, and a very few higher end stores. And a gazillion people.

Now, I tend to avoid outlet malls altogether - one opened not terribly far from me last month, and I went to see what all the fuss was about. Fuss about nothing, IMO. People were queuing for a long time to buy Coach handbags - I just don't understand that at all - the handbags are for the most part, sub $500, so any savings you obtain are not going to be substantial. I could understand queueing for discounts on handbags that cost $5000, but in all honestly, Coach is available at department stores, which often have sales and discounts on anyway.

Stereotypes die hard, but is interesting to note that anti-"American" sentiment has been extended to include our neighbors to the north, who were formally believed to be too innocuous to matter.

For example, the perception that Germans are all the direct descendants of the Nazi high command and evil is alive and well. I first encountered it more than years ago, and this year was startled to see that anti-German bias is still alive and well in Rome.

(Underlining mine)

I think most people can understand that the bigger concern is not so much 30 sets of cutlery but rather an understanding of what is a "souvenir" and what is not. If one eats in a sit-down restaurant, it is generally understood that the cutlery, tableware, cruets, etc. are not there for the taking. I wonder if those same folks would take home tableware from a restaurant in their homeland? Or does this behavior reflect a greater cultural difference, arising from the historic Chinese contempt from those "beyond the wall" mixed with half a century of communism with a recent dose of a market economy creating a confusion over the difference between "mine" and "yours?"

But you don't have Disneyland. Even Nikhita Khrushchev wanted to go there!

I'm not a huge fan of outlet malls myself, but I can see where the standard midscale outlet mall (with Polo, Tommy, etc.) would be appealing to the middle class Chinese. I mean, their teenagers all love to rock the same brands that Western teenagers do...

I'm not sure where the optimal source for a $5,000 bag is. I don't think those brands ever really needed Gurney Mills to move their product.

Exactly. There's a heavy tax on imported designer goods in China, so most Chinese malls are crammed with Chinese labels that no one has heard of outside of China. The opportunity to buy western designer labels is an incredibly powerful magnet, at least among my wife's friends in China.

Oh I am not so sure that Americans / Canadians / Brits can get away with calling kettle on this one - I've seen more than one branded beer glass being snuck out of a pub by all three! One six-figure earning spouse of a friend is more guilty than most, and actually has enough purloined glassware to open his own bar.