Hang up and call back.

In the case of IROPS, a P fare is definitely an F fare...

I believe you but I can also tell you more CS reps at Delta believe it is a Y-Up than don't. I have asked almost every time I call for anything just to get a sense for what the "common knowledge" is and 9 out of 10 times they give me the A fare spiel about it not being a "true" FC ticket. YMMV.

I was on a P fare in June for DTW/SFO and wanted to SDC for an earlier flight. I was told when I called Delta on the way to the airport that it was a buy-up fare and I would go into coach on a SDC and my upgrade would have to clear at the gate since there wasn't any P or V inventory. I didn't want to risk losing the upgrade so I asked at the SC and was told the same thing.

Pay an extra $430 for a medium haul flt on a mad dog? No way, but if someone actually paid that much more for a seat and it cost me an UG, I would say they deserved to sit in F much more than me.

I'll throw in my $0.02 from the non-status perspective. Having no status, sitting in coach for me means getting the regular non-exit row seats and getting myself (and sometimes my laptop) smushed by adjoining passengers and reclining seats. I also happen to be one of those don't-invade-my-personal-space kind of people. So for me, I usually pay for domestic first (usually P fare) or else just get an award ticket for first. I do try to make it more worthwhile by either booking a nonstop or else getting on a 777 or 767 to get a bigger, nicer seat on one leg. And for anything under 2 hours, I just take the coach ticket.

But, yeah, for non-status, non-business-travel folks who travel alone, sometimes its worth it.

I'm a non-status, non-business travel folk almost always traveling with the three other members of my family. While both my wife and I earn pretty decent salaries (both are six-figures), we simply can't justify the cost of flying First class - money can be spent better than that. And that's the only way for us to get into First class, since we don't get free upgrades or whatever.

Would only pay full fares on longer flights, for short hops like that are just pointless imo. Ive only flown on a fully paid F flight once, and that was on someone elses dime. That being said, if domestic F was more....luxurious, then maybe it would be worth it more.

Interesting. The response to the lack of "P" is to ask 'em what they do when there's no "T" inventory left over...

Agreed. For traveling with family/friends, I fly coach as well. Personal space takes on a different meaning for family/friends rather than strangers.

And since the kids can't drink, they won't take full advantage of first class anyway

In case of IROPS - maybe, if you are assertive and being rebooked onto Delta. If you need to be rebooked onto another airline, it won't happen. In my foulup with Delta going to FAI, I finally got rebooked on F with Delta into SEA but I got nowhere trying to get the last leg into FAI rebooked into F with AS. The Corporate Customer Care center confirmed for me that my rebooking was handled per policy.

I'm told that P fares are the source of many complaints, but also are the source of profits.

Again, a P fare is really an M fare with an upgrade. Good luck finding that fine print anywhere on delta.com. I wonder if P availability corresponds to either upgrade bucket.

David

Actually, I found a routing ATL-LAX-ATL where P is an H fare with an upgrade, and the economy fare with instant upgrade facet is disclosed in the fare rules:

ECONOMY WEB FARE WITH AN INSTANT UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF
PURCHASE TO FIRST/BUSINESS

ATLLAX-DL 25JUL11 *RULE DISPLAY* TARIFF 0191 RULE EC98
-FARE BASIS USD TAX TOTAL PTC FT
HA00A0NJ/WNUP 553.49 0.00 553.49 ADT NL
BOOKING CODES H P I

I always pay for 1st on any flight across the US. Eleven times alone last year Atl to Seatac. I am lucky as I can expense and IMHO its worth the money on a 5 hour flight especially on a 757.

+1

Run a fare search... /WNUP seems to indicate the "FCM" fares, and the fare rules state coach with an instant upgrade. I've certainly seen Q fares with an instant upgrade... trying to remember if I've seen K fares or not...

The problem is that if DL downgrades the F product, people will feel less inclined to pay full-fare for F. In the 90's (correct me if I'm wrong), the majority of the F cabin were filled of people on either paid F or true full-fare Y. Back in these days, DL (and other carriers) provisioned an elaborate meal service, had a nice presentation (linens, china, meals served in courses on shorter flights, even, etc), and made the F cabin attractive enough to pay for (menus, presentation, good meals). Then, DL (and others) cut, cut, cut, enhanced, enhanced, and enhanced. Result? Nowadays F isn't worth paying for.

If there was a ~$150 difference; I wasn't on a tight budget; and the flight was long enough (4.5+ hours; mostly transcon flights), I would pay for F. However, if AA/CO were offering similar routings in F at the same prices, I would rather pay for their F cabin, as both AA/CO offer differentiated transcon F (menus, sundaes, etc) during DL only offers JFK-LAX/SFO in BE-lite.

Unfortunately, from my perspective, DL's current F isn't attractive. Plopping everything on one tray, no linens, no transcon special service (excluding JFK-SFO/LAX), and generally having a cheap feel... is it worth it to me? No. Not except for the reasons listed above. I suspect many feel the same way. This is a self-fulfilling prophecy for DL, and they'll continue to cut until F is nothing but a bigger seat and some snacks/limited free alcohol. Hopefully they won't go this route, but who knows?