In a story on MSNBC.com, "Airline Fees Test Travelers' Limits," a Southwest spokesman is reported to have said "never" to change fees:

Entire story: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38566055...l-travel_tips/

Never is a very long time. It is quite meaningless in the above statement.

Quite agreed.Based on how long #3 lasted, don't count on the party lasting a whole lot longer.

You should have stopped there!

Yes, incredible value to the passenger. Your first comment, though, was very close to hitting the nail on the head. My answer to the question is:


Think about the fees WN has had over the years: excess bag fees; award reissuance fees; more recently pet fees and UM fees. None of those fees were ever "attached" to a ticket. You have too many bags? Pay a fee to the lady at the counter when you drop them off. You want us to reissue an award? Send us the info and the money and someone in Dallas will take care of it. Pet or minor? Pay the nice lady at the counter. In every case there is a gatekeeper to collect the fee and cause or allow something to happen.

Now think about the most common fees WN does not charge: fuel surcharge; change fee; short-notice award ticketing. All those fees are very closely tied to ticketing transactions. WN doesn't charge them because they can't.

Or at least...they couldn't. EBCI is a potential game changer, especially with the new � la carte method of collecting it. It suggests that WN may be moving closer to having the ability to attach fees to ticketing transactions. The facts that EBCI still can't be paid with TTF and that it isn't refunded when you cancel suggest there may still be a level of separation between the ticketing transaction and the EBCI fee.

So, yes, in the beginning they kept it simple. When change fees came on the scene they were small and SWA didn't want to be bothered rewriting the software for some $25 fees. Now with fees as high as they are the reprogramming cost can be pretty easily justified. "No change fees, Denver!" doesn't reassure me, given the relatively weak commitment to no change fees in the shareholder meeting prepared statements. If they are just now giving the software the ability to charge change fees, they can certainly make them variable by market, or introduce "change fee holidays" where you get a limited window to change without a fee. (Of course they'd probably zero out the low fare buckets during the change fee holiday, similar to the "50% off" city promo specials.)

I have little doubt that one thing IT is working on now, or soon will be, is adding the ability to charge fees tied to ticketing transactions. There may not be plans to adopt them yet, but once the capability exists they are no longer off the table has they have been in the past.

In the future, we can just show up at the airport and claim that the website would not let us pay the fee, due to an Undefined Error. @:-)

!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You made my day....

My TV set is stuck on C-SPAN -- probably because I didn't pay my cable bill -- and I was today treated to WN VP of Marketing Dave Ridley matter-of-factly explaining to the committee members that WN doesn't charge bag fees, change fees, energy surcharges, etc. Go Dave! He was immediately followed by some guy from Spirit Airlines who was full of BS and who was called on it, being vigorously cross-examined by members about things like carry-on bag fees; and ticket taxes and fees that aren't disclosed until you've made the reservation and are ready to pay.

I would love to see a WN commercial based on these hearings -- either an excerpt of the actual testimony or a caricatured, humorous version.

Yeah. Especially if it includes the segment where the WN exec is asked: "You sold these drink coupons without an expiration date, and 16 months later you retroactively imposed an expiration date on them?"

Wag the dog syndrome. Always bothersome to see business processes constrained by IT design/limitations...instead of the other way around.

My thinking is that the "No Change Fees!" mantra is almost like a red herring-esque diversion.

What they've been doing is methodically adding restrictions one by one, banking on the fact that most people won't notice:
1. "Freedom" awards
2. 2 free bags instead of 3
3. increasing base fares
4. restrict TTF usage
5. enforce drink coupon expiration

They can continue to tout no garbage fees and act as if the generous target-rich playground we've all enjoyed frolicking in still exists. When in fact, they have started the process of planting land mines all over the place.

There's an interesting discussion of baggage fees from an economics perspective at:

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/...#disqus_thread

I caution the reader that the source text for the original post came from an old Joe Brancatelli column. Joe is sometimes wrong but rarely in doubt.

Hey, wipe that smile off your face! Many of us here fit that description...

New ad campaign about change fees:

http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/p...e-fee/127789/1

^

Let's see if they're clever enough to effectively work in the ability to re-fare without penalty.

From the article

That seems to be a reasonable conclusion for the leisure flyer. Small businesses would look at it more favorably than the bag fee item.

I hope it's very successful, to the point of shaming other airlines to eliminate or drastically reduce change fees. But I am not too optimistic about it, given they've been able to INCREASE baggage fees in the 2 years since they began with little downside. And baggage fees are the easier item to campaign against.

I was on a completely packed LAS-SJC flight on Sunday (they even took volunteers off after we boarded, it was 137).

To of the last 10 or so people to board both had guitars with them. You know how much baggage they had to rearrange to get the guitars stowed towards the front of the plane? None, there were two bins in the front of the plane with plenty of room. I ended up putting my computer in the overhead before pushback, since the one above my seat was only 1/3 full.

I certainly notice that overhead bin storage is much less of an issue on WN than other airlines because bags fly free for everyone (certainly some flights still have problems, especially on -300's and -500's, but on average it's less of an issue), I doubt I'm the only traveler who notices this. Of course elites on other airlines get their bags for free, but I think it is also inarguable that bags fly free for all passengers benefits everyone.

I certainly notice that overhead bin storage is much less of an issue on WN than other airlines because bags fly free for everyone (certainly some flights still have problems, especially on -300's and -500's, but on average it's less of an issue), I doubt I'm the only traveler who notices this.

You are not. Two at-capacity WN flights today, and no-one having to check bags on either. Being elite on legacies might help you if you're at the gate area well in advance and can board 40 mins before take off, but it won't do diddly squat for you if you have a large rolling carry on and rock up at the gate towards the end of the boarding process- as I did today.

On legacies, all infrequent flyers try to avoid checking anything. On WN, FFs take carry on only (unless they're lugging around demo equipment, for example) and everyone else checks bags. It was like this on legacies in the old days, and I find it much more civilised.

In terms of WN trying to advertise the no change fees, I agree that is a tougher sell. Apart from in extreme cases this will not affect the bulk of their passengers- a vacation in Vegas tends not to change date/time except in emergency- but that said, even legacy elite biz flyers get zapped for changes if they don't happen to be same day. It's gonna take some cleverness, but they might just swing it.

Cheers,

Paul.

I actually think the major "Bags Fly Free" Ad Campaign by Southwest has improved the carry-on situation on Southwest as compared to several years ago when I think there were more at-the-gate check-ins on Southwest. The reason: the infrequent causal traveler now knows, better than before, that he or she can check in their bags for free at Southwest. Before the ad campaign, they might have assumed that Southwest was like any other carrier that charged for checked bags.

With the major ad campaign, it's fresh on their mind that they can check in their bags for free on Southwest and do.