Delta, Airlines Face Challenge Slowing Union Drives
May 13, 2010 | 9:04 am
#136
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Atlanta
Programs: AA Lifetime Gold, Marriott Silver, Starwood Platinum
Posts: 3,655
NWAFA if you like giving you money to the AFA then go ahead. I believe those who want representation should get it by the AFA but don't drag the rest of us down with you. My hope is to see the AFA fail as it has done no good in the past nor will it in the future. I hope the FAs will see the light and say NO to the AFA and my friends in CS will say no to IAM!!!
May 13, 2010 | 10:04 am
#137
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: CHI/MSP
Programs: Delta Platinum, United Prem Exec
Posts: 1,334
NWAFA if you like giving you money to the AFA then go ahead. I believe those who want representation should get it by the AFA but don't drag the rest of us down with you. My hope is to see the AFA fail as it has done no good in the past nor will it in the future. I hope the FAs will see the light and say NO to the AFA and my friends in CS will say no to IAM!!!
May 13, 2010 | 10:35 am
#138
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Atlanta
Programs: AA Lifetime Gold, Marriott Silver, Starwood Platinum
Posts: 3,655
May 13, 2010 | 11:14 am
#139
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: CHI/MSP
Programs: Delta Platinum, United Prem Exec
Posts: 1,334
My hope is that regardless of how this shakes out, you would continue to work on behalf of your customers and work well with your colleagues, regardless of whether or not they're represented. As customers, we might have political & ideological opinions, but when we're at the counter, at the gate, on-board the plane, etc. we really couldn't care less about this stuff as long as the employees are still doing their jobs safely, efficiently, and are working together to achieve those goals on behalf of their customers.
May 13, 2010 | 12:04 pm
#140
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Hopefully on a plane...
Posts: 6,580
My hope is that regardless of how this shakes out, you would continue to work on behalf of your customers and work well with your colleagues, regardless of whether or not they're represented. As customers, we might have political & ideological opinions, but when we're at the counter, at the gate, on-board the plane, etc. we really couldn't care less about this stuff as long as the employees are still doing their jobs safely, efficiently, and are working together to achieve those goals on behalf of their customers.
I tend to believe that if employees are treated properly and incentivised to do the best job possible, they will do so. Structured agreements that leave an employer with little flexibility, when they need it, tend to, in the long run, be undemocratic, (IMHO) against a pure capitalist perspective, harm rather than help the employers/employees (look at GM) and do not incentivise going "above and beyond" the call of duty.
Ultimately, if DL is as bad as NWAFA has suggested, I don't think they deserve my business. But, until something other than innuendo is posted, I tend to believe that the story is nothing more than union scare tactics.
May 13, 2010 | 1:18 pm
#141
Join Date: Jul 2004
Programs: DL; AA; UA; LHLX; AFKL; SK; BA; SQ; CX
Posts: 7,788
JD Power Airline Rankings
Customer Service satisfaction (as opposed to Operational Metrics such as bags, etc., as measured by the DOT stats and the Wichita Airline quality ratings) is usually reflected in other surveys such as the JD Power Studies:
2009 Results:
http://businesscenter.jdpower.com/ne...spx?ID=2009121
OVERALL:
1. Alaska 671 pts
2. Continental 669 pts
3. Delta 641 pts
Traditional Network Carriers Average: 626
4. Air Canada 623 pts
5. American 618 pts
6. Northwest 614 pts
7. United 604 pts
8. US Airways 599 pts
Flight Crew Experience:
5 out of 5: Alaska
4 out of 5: Continental; Delta
3 out of 5: Air Canada, American, Northwest
2 out of 5: United, US AIrways
Inflight services Experience:
5 out of 5: Continental
4 out of 5: Alaska; Delta; Air Canada
3 out of 5: United; American
2 out of 5: Northwest; US Airways
2008
Overall Results:
http://businesscenter.jdpower.com/JD...df/2008069.pdf
1. Alaska and Continental 684 pts
3. Delta 669 pts
4. Air Canada 654 pts
Traditional Network Carrier Average: 650 pts
5. American 644 pts
6. US Airways 640 pts
7. Northwest; United 628 pts
2009 Results:
http://businesscenter.jdpower.com/ne...spx?ID=2009121
OVERALL:
1. Alaska 671 pts
2. Continental 669 pts
3. Delta 641 pts
Traditional Network Carriers Average: 626
4. Air Canada 623 pts
5. American 618 pts
6. Northwest 614 pts
7. United 604 pts
8. US Airways 599 pts
Flight Crew Experience:
5 out of 5: Alaska
4 out of 5: Continental; Delta
3 out of 5: Air Canada, American, Northwest
2 out of 5: United, US AIrways
Inflight services Experience:
5 out of 5: Continental
4 out of 5: Alaska; Delta; Air Canada
3 out of 5: United; American
2 out of 5: Northwest; US Airways
2008
Overall Results:
http://businesscenter.jdpower.com/JD...df/2008069.pdf
1. Alaska and Continental 684 pts
3. Delta 669 pts
4. Air Canada 654 pts
Traditional Network Carrier Average: 650 pts
5. American 644 pts
6. US Airways 640 pts
7. Northwest; United 628 pts
May 13, 2010 | 1:57 pm
#142
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 839
No interest in giving my hard earned money to others more than I already do with taxes.
I will leave DL if it goes union. No question about it.
The other day some IAM folks stopped by my house for a propaganda session.
They were UAL folks...funny, they had to fly here to talk to me (and others in my area) because UAL outsourced the former UAL ground staff at my station...all those folks either had to transfer to Paducah, KY or lose their jobs. So much for protection.
They didn't stay long at my house.
May 13, 2010 | 2:28 pm
#144
Join Date: Nov 2007
Programs: DL GM, WN AL/CP, UA Silver, Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 1,483
EDIT: Same question to DLBeno.
May 13, 2010 | 3:30 pm
#145
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Somewhere today, somewhere tomorrow!
Programs: Delta DM
Posts: 6,767
Posters have questioned the de-certification method. There is a method, I'll give you an example as to how:
DE-CERTIFICATION
The only difference in the process is that if you do have representation, you must have 50% of employees sign authorization cards to authorize an election compared to only 35% if there is no union on the property.
Once we vote for AFA representation, we can start a process to return to non-union status or change union after a 2 year period.
If you want Teamsters let's say, you just run a card drive for the Teamsters and once you have 50% of cards signed...the NMB will authorize an election.
If you don't want representation let's say, you just run a card drive for 'NWAFA' (example). The ballot will then read...
1. Current union
2. NWAFA
3. No union
If the no-union option receives more votes then those in favor of representation....you return to non-union status.
If NWAFA receives the most votes, then NWAFA simply tells the NMB that he has no interest in representing the group and we return to non-union status.
So in essence, YES...it is the same process. There is just a higher requirement to authorize an election once a group does have representation. This has been common practice at the NMB.
DE-CERTIFICATION
The only difference in the process is that if you do have representation, you must have 50% of employees sign authorization cards to authorize an election compared to only 35% if there is no union on the property.
Once we vote for AFA representation, we can start a process to return to non-union status or change union after a 2 year period.
If you want Teamsters let's say, you just run a card drive for the Teamsters and once you have 50% of cards signed...the NMB will authorize an election.
If you don't want representation let's say, you just run a card drive for 'NWAFA' (example). The ballot will then read...
1. Current union
2. NWAFA
3. No union
If the no-union option receives more votes then those in favor of representation....you return to non-union status.
If NWAFA receives the most votes, then NWAFA simply tells the NMB that he has no interest in representing the group and we return to non-union status.
So in essence, YES...it is the same process. There is just a higher requirement to authorize an election once a group does have representation. This has been common practice at the NMB.
May 13, 2010 | 3:31 pm
#146
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Somewhere today, somewhere tomorrow!
Programs: Delta DM
Posts: 6,767
Any specifics you would like to with us as to why?
WN is one of the most unionized airlines out there, but the employees are respected and empowered by management. Part of their efficiency is that folks there generally don't get bent out of shape and file a grievance when someone does another work group's job to get an aircraft pushed back on time, for instance.
Is that the same Facebook group that was behind the copy-and-paste fiasco of quoting the People's World Weekly, a communist website right after the US 1549 incident?
A member of that Facebook group went on to libel the actions of the crew, ignoring the NTSB briefings.
I don't like the prospect of AFA lightening someone's paycheck every month (it's all about the dues money going to HQ) but that is the wrong way to go about it.
WN is one of the most unionized airlines out there, but the employees are respected and empowered by management. Part of their efficiency is that folks there generally don't get bent out of shape and file a grievance when someone does another work group's job to get an aircraft pushed back on time, for instance.
Is that the same Facebook group that was behind the copy-and-paste fiasco of quoting the People's World Weekly, a communist website right after the US 1549 incident?
A member of that Facebook group went on to libel the actions of the crew, ignoring the NTSB briefings.
I don't like the prospect of AFA lightening someone's paycheck every month (it's all about the dues money going to HQ) but that is the wrong way to go about it.
May 13, 2010 | 4:35 pm
#147
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,806
Sorry, but you are wrong, you need to READ the entire PDF file and see that there IS NOW WAY to vote out a union, 35%, 50%, 100%, once a union in house always a union in house as the new rule stands. So Please feel free to read the 100+ page PDF, I did, I didn't understand some of it but from what the lawyers have said that have read it, there IS NO WAY TO VOTE OUT A UNION ONCE IT HAS BEEN VOTED IN. Look for more into on it VERY SOON. Thats all I will say.
So, no, I'm not wrong.
http://www.nrtw.org/d/deauth_decert_rla.htm
Last edited by NWAFA; May 13, 2010 at 5:14 pm Reason: Added link
May 13, 2010 | 5:35 pm
#148
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Some place in this wonderful world (usually at 39,000 ft in seat 1C)
Programs: CO Gold Elite / NW Gold Elite
Posts: 13,747
Thanks, good to know where you stand. You are fortunate that your skills & qualifications would allow you that kind of career flexibility.
My hope is that regardless of how this shakes out, you would continue to work on behalf of your customers and work well with your colleagues, regardless of whether or not they're represented. As customers, we might have political & ideological opinions, but when we're at the counter, at the gate, on-board the plane, etc. we really couldn't care less about this stuff as long as the employees are still doing their jobs safely, efficiently, and are working together to achieve those goals on behalf of their customers.
My hope is that regardless of how this shakes out, you would continue to work on behalf of your customers and work well with your colleagues, regardless of whether or not they're represented. As customers, we might have political & ideological opinions, but when we're at the counter, at the gate, on-board the plane, etc. we really couldn't care less about this stuff as long as the employees are still doing their jobs safely, efficiently, and are working together to achieve those goals on behalf of their customers.
May 13, 2010 | 7:30 pm
#149
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Madison, WI, USA
Posts: 14,167
Yes. As evidenced by my previous posts. However, NWAFA has shown they have no interest in discussion, just posting hyperbole and PR .........
A reminder that NWAFA has gone out of their way to spew negative information & hyperbole but has failed to provide anything substantive to the argument. This is my biggest issue with union organizers, they love to spread hate but never seem to be able to back it up @:-)
So as far as your message to "Give it up" why don't you go ahead and read before you blow something off. Maybe you & NWAFA have something in common. A lack of respect for a discussion.
A reminder that NWAFA has gone out of their way to spew negative information & hyperbole but has failed to provide anything substantive to the argument. This is my biggest issue with union organizers, they love to spread hate but never seem to be able to back it up @:-)
So as far as your message to "Give it up" why don't you go ahead and read before you blow something off. Maybe you & NWAFA have something in common. A lack of respect for a discussion.
May 14, 2010 | 7:05 am
#150
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Hopefully on a plane...
Posts: 6,580
I've read. You're not discussing, you're attacking, as you do when someone says something negative about DL. NWAFA has only posted information. It's your hatred of all things union that causes you to see it as negative and hyperbole. I don't see NWAFA spreading hate, but you certainly are doing your part.
However you seem to be willing to happily jump on a thread without providing any backing to you statements that tend to directly attack another member.
Thanks for your great insight into the issue.