Oct 3, 2023, 2:27 pm
Last edit by: Nick Art
SAS plans to leave Star Alliance and join SkyTeam
On the 3rd of October SAS announced further steps as part of their SAS FORWARD plan. SAS has raised nearly 12.9 billion SEK as part of their Chapter 11 restructuring process. This will mean current shareholders are wiped out and the company will be delisted.
The new owners include Air France-KLM, Castlelake, Lind Invest and the Danish state.
As such, SAS plans to leave Star Alliance and join Air France-KLM's Sky Team alliance by summer 2024.
FAQ:
What does this mean for EuroBonus?
SAS EuroBonus FAQ:
On October 3rd 2023, SAS announced the intention to eventually join SkyTeam and leave Star Alliance. For now the EuroBonus program remains unchanged. SAS will keep you informed about what to expect over the coming months and will provide updates continuously on the EuroBonus website.
1. What will happen to EuroBonus?
2. What will happen to my EuroBonus points?
3. What will happen to my EuroBonus tier status?
4. What will happen to my EuroBonus Lifetime Gold status?
5. Do I keep my status benefits when I travel on another Star Alliance partner airline?
6. Can I still earn points when I fly on another Star Alliance carrier?
7. What will happen to my existing Star Alliance award bookings?
8. Can I still use my points to redeem on other Star Alliance carriers?
9. Can I still earn points on credits cards and other non-airline partners?
10. Can I still use my EuroBonus points on non-airline partners such as rental cars or hotels?
Will there be opportunities to match with other programs to remain in *A?
Will AF - KLM take over control of SAS?
What is the ratio of the new ownership?
What happens to existing SAS shares?
Will SAS change their HUB strategy or move their HQ to Denmark?
Will SAS join the SkyTeam transatlantic Joint Venture?
How was this decided?
What is the process now?
Sources and links:
- SAS Press Release
- Communication E-Mail sent to EB members can be found in Post 114
- E24 (Information with regards to EuroBonus. Thanks to matin for the find in Post 64)
- Reuters
- AF-KLM Press Release
- SAS EuroBonus FAQ (Thanks again to matin for the find in Post 237)
- DInside on Merger of EuroBonus into FlyingBlue (Thanks to Frederik74 for the find in Post 473)
On the 3rd of October SAS announced further steps as part of their SAS FORWARD plan. SAS has raised nearly 12.9 billion SEK as part of their Chapter 11 restructuring process. This will mean current shareholders are wiped out and the company will be delisted.
The new owners include Air France-KLM, Castlelake, Lind Invest and the Danish state.
As such, SAS plans to leave Star Alliance and join Air France-KLM's Sky Team alliance by summer 2024.
FAQ:
What does this mean for EuroBonus?
- Eurobonus members can still book travel on Star Alliance carriers until the end of the transition period.
Future affiliation with Air France-KLM's Flying Blue frequent flyer programme has not yet been decided.- In the meantime the agreement between SAS and the investing consortium includes a provision for preparations of merging EuroBonus into FlyingBlue once AF-KLM owns more than 50% of the outstanding shares. It thus seems very likely that EuroBonus will ultimately be merged into FlyingBlue, the timeline and details of this are, however, still unclear.
SAS EuroBonus FAQ:
On October 3rd 2023, SAS announced the intention to eventually join SkyTeam and leave Star Alliance. For now the EuroBonus program remains unchanged. SAS will keep you informed about what to expect over the coming months and will provide updates continuously on the EuroBonus website.
1. What will happen to EuroBonus?
- No changes are being made to the program and EuroBonus will remain SAS's loyalty program. As a member, you will continue to earn and use points on SAS as today. Your status and benefits as a EuroBonus member when you fly with SAS will not be impacted. Delivering an attractive loyalty program to SAS's loyal customers will remain the top priority for us and our new owners, even after SAS changes ownership and alliance. SAS intends to eventually leave Star Alliance and join SkyTeam, and adjustments to the program will be made accordingly. As long as SAS is a member of Star Alliance, EuroBonus members can continue to enjoy the same benefits as they do today when flying on a Star Alliance partner airline.
2. What will happen to my EuroBonus points?
- No changes are made to your EuroBonus points. You will keep all points earned until now and will continue to earn and use points just like today.
3. What will happen to my EuroBonus tier status?
- No changes are made to your EuroBonus tier status. You will retain your status and your progress made during your qualification period. Requirements to reach each tier level and benefits included in each tier remain the same.
4. What will happen to my EuroBonus Lifetime Gold status?
- No changes are made to the EuroBonus Lifetime Gold program. EuroBonus Lifetime Gold memberships will be honored even after SAS joins SkyTeam, and all progress made towards Lifetime Gold will be kept.
5. Do I keep my status benefits when I travel on another Star Alliance partner airline?
- While SAS remains part of Star Alliance, you will enjoy the same status benefits as you do today when you fly with a Star Alliance partner When SAS eventually joins SkyTeam, you will also be able to enjoy similar status benefits across the extensive SkyTeam network.
6. Can I still earn points when I fly on another Star Alliance carrier?
- While SAS remains part of Star Alliance, you will be able to earn EuroBonus Basic points when flying on a Star Alliance airline partner flights
7. What will happen to my existing Star Alliance award bookings?
- Existing bookings remain unchanged and will be honored even if you fly after SAS eventually leaves Star Alliance
8. Can I still use my points to redeem on other Star Alliance carriers?
- While SAS remains part of Star Alliance, we will allow you to use EuroBonus points to book Star Alliance award trips
9. Can I still earn points on credits cards and other non-airline partners?
- Yes
10. Can I still use my EuroBonus points on non-airline partners such as rental cars or hotels?
- Yes
- While SAS remains part of Star Alliance, members of other Star Alliance member programs will keep their status benefits while flying on SAS, and will be able to spend their miles/points on SAS flights
Will there be opportunities to match with other programs to remain in *A?
- Most likely yes, but it will have yet to be seen what opportunities will present itself.
Will AF - KLM take over control of SAS?
- After a minimum of two years and pending regulatory permission, AF - KLM may increase its stake to grant it controlling power over SAS. However, the current situation indicates that there are agreements within the consortium, which would de facto give AF - KLM control with regards to certain aspects of SAS operations (as seen by the announcement to leave *A and join ST).
What is the ratio of the new ownership?
- Castlelake: 32%
- AF - KLM: 19.9%
- Danish State: 25.8%
- Lind Invest: 8.6%
- Remaining equity to be distributed to existing creditors.
What happens to existing SAS shares?
- This process makes current SAS shares lose their value. Some existing shareholders expressed displeasure about the decision and are questioning wether an American court can rule on making existing shares of SAS lose their value. It remains to be seen if legal action is taken.
Will SAS change their HUB strategy or move their HQ to Denmark?
- This is as of yet unconfirmed but it seems likely that SAS might focus on CPH and move its HQ.
Will SAS join the SkyTeam transatlantic Joint Venture?
- This is the stated goal of AF-KLM CEO, but will require regulatory approval.
How was this decided?
- There was a bidding process and two bids were received. Private Equity company Apollo Global Invest had expressed interest in taking control of the airline.
- The decision on the bids was taken roughly 30 minutes before the press conference on October 3rd as stated by Dilling.
What is the process now?
- Nothing changes immediately. As of now SAS is still a member of Star Alliance and will continue to operate normally for the foreseeable future.
- The announcements made today reflect the future plans, which are subject to approval by many different entities and regulatory bodies. These include the courts in the US to approve the Chapter 11 process, courts in Sweden which will have to approve the restructuring (and invalidation of shares), as well as the following, as taken out of the SAS press release: "(...) antitrust authorities, civil aviation authorities, the European Commission, and EFTA Surveillance Authority (as applicable), SAS leaving Star Alliance, the implementation of a Swedish Reorganization at the SAS AB level, and other customary conditions. There currently remains uncertainty in respect of satisfying such conditions and obtaining required approvals (...)".
- We should hear more about if this is going through in the next couple of weeks.
- SAS plans to exit Chapter 11 in Q2 2024 and leave Star Alliance and join SkyTeam before summer 2024.
Sources and links:
- SAS Press Release
- Communication E-Mail sent to EB members can be found in Post 114
- E24 (Information with regards to EuroBonus. Thanks to matin for the find in Post 64)
- Reuters
- AF-KLM Press Release
- SAS EuroBonus FAQ (Thanks again to matin for the find in Post 237)
- DInside on Merger of EuroBonus into FlyingBlue (Thanks to Frederik74 for the find in Post 473)
SAS to leave Star Alliance and join SkyTeam [eff. 01 Sep 2024]
Jan 22, 2024, 1:55 pm
#586
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Normal people don't fly CPH-ORD-SFO/LAX when CPH to SFO/LAX nonstop options exist. Your theory of ORD being all connecting pax is 100% false.
Jan 22, 2024, 4:38 pm
#587
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There are cities in the US without TATL flights, so passengers going there would anyway need to connect in the US, but absence of a TATL is probably rather indicative of the passenger flow.
Jan 22, 2024, 6:06 pm
#588
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And connecting in ORD does not have the alternative of connecting in Munich, Frankfurt, Amsterdam? It is not just connecting in Copenhagen that opens the door to considering other connection points. It happens as soon as you don't have a non stop flight.
There are cities in the US without TATL flights, so passengers going there would anyway need to connect in the US, but absence of a TATL is probably rather indicative of the passenger flow.
There are cities in the US without TATL flights, so passengers going there would anyway need to connect in the US, but absence of a TATL is probably rather indicative of the passenger flow.
When comes to the US, normal travelers don't stop at ORD when their final destinations is another 4 hours+ of flying time to the west coast. People will take a west coast long haul nearly always.
Jan 22, 2024, 7:23 pm
#589
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: PAR, TYO, SEL, SIN, SYD
Programs: AF/KLM Platinum Ultimate, VA Velocity Platinum, ALL Platinum
Posts: 717
Never mind the need for connections at major US transit hubs, normal travelers from secondary airports in Denmark, Sweden, or Norway, may not even have options to connect without bypassing Copenhagen, Stockholm, or Oslo. In such scenarios, Aarhus comes to mind, one-stop connection before the long haul would be the norm.
When comes to the US, normal travelers don't stop at ORD when their final destinations is another 4 hours+ of flying time to the west coast. People will take a west coast long haul nearly always.
When comes to the US, normal travelers don't stop at ORD when their final destinations is another 4 hours+ of flying time to the west coast. People will take a west coast long haul nearly always.
And yes sorry I know it was one example amongst many.
Jan 22, 2024, 7:27 pm
#590
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tokyo
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Posts: 21,428
Ill throw oil on the fire and say Aarhus does have the shuttles to BLL which is very well connected already. AAR had one season of KL which was silently discontinued, I wonder if it might make a comeback under the new partnership.
And yes sorry I know it was one example amongst many.
And yes sorry I know it was one example amongst many.
Jan 23, 2024, 1:06 am
#591
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UME 🇸🇪 / NWI🇬🇧
Programs: SJ, SAS, DL
Posts: 1,726
I cashed in some BMI Diamond Club miles and paid less than $20 for the whole trip. But because of relative tailwinds and headwinds it turned out to be almost exactly 7hrs + 7hrs. The dramatic difference in service between trans-Atlantic (meals + IFE) and trans-continental Y (no meals, no IFE) also sucked.
Jan 23, 2024, 10:51 am
#592
Join Date: May 2008
Location: ARN
Posts: 3,482
Not sure who in their right mind would prefer to connect in ORD for LAX or SFO, rather than make a quick hop to CPH and get on a longhaul to their destination. If going somewhere else on the west coast with no SK flight that changes the proposition. But a 4 hour domestic hop in the back of the bus is not fun after a transatlantic longhaul, US domestic flying sucks for a majority of SK customers today. Add in no global entry for most and the change of terminals at ORD and re-checking bags, you have quite a bit of uncertainty if you will make your connection.
You assume everyone with connections at CPH have lots of options. A small town in Denmark, for example, does not offer a lot of choices for "better" airlines.
Normal people don't fly CPH-ORD-SFO/LAX when CPH to SFO/LAX nonstop options exist. Your theory of ORD being all connecting pax is 100% false.
Normal people don't fly CPH-ORD-SFO/LAX when CPH to SFO/LAX nonstop options exist. Your theory of ORD being all connecting pax is 100% false.
And connecting in ORD does not have the alternative of connecting in Munich, Frankfurt, Amsterdam? It is not just connecting in Copenhagen that opens the door to considering other connection points. It happens as soon as you don't have a non stop flight.
There are cities in the US without TATL flights, so passengers going there would anyway need to connect in the US, but absence of a TATL is probably rather indicative of the passenger flow.
There are cities in the US without TATL flights, so passengers going there would anyway need to connect in the US, but absence of a TATL is probably rather indicative of the passenger flow.
By the way, the SAS decision to replace ARN-ORD with CPH-ATL is more or less a confirmation that it's mostly about connections. There is no other logical explanation why they have introduced ATL. I can't see why SAS would expect lots of Scandinavian customers to suddenly decide to fly to Atlanta instead of Chicago just because SAS will be a member of SkyTeam.
Jan 23, 2024, 12:22 pm
#593
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When reading these comments, I almost get the impression that some posters assume that, apart from Los Angeles and San Francisco, everything west of Chicago is just one huge unpopulated desert. Flights to destinations in states such as Washington, Oregon, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, and Colorado would entail serious backtracking from SFO or LAX. ORD is also a perfect hub for flights to destinations towards the south, such as Texas, Kansas, Oklahoma, Tennessee, etc. ORD is also a plausible transfer point for flights from Scandinavia to Florida. I'm pretty sure that you could even find a handful of people that live in the Los Angeles and San Francisco metro area that would rather fly out of a small local airport, such as ONT or OAK to ORD, instead of catching a flight from LAX or SFO.
By the way, the SAS decision to replace ARN-ORD with CPH-ATL is more or less a confirmation that it's mostly about connections. There is no other logical explanation why they have introduced ATL. I can't see why SAS would expect lots of Scandinavian customers to suddenly decide to fly to Atlanta instead of Chicago just because SAS will be a member of SkyTeam.
By the way, the SAS decision to replace ARN-ORD with CPH-ATL is more or less a confirmation that it's mostly about connections. There is no other logical explanation why they have introduced ATL. I can't see why SAS would expect lots of Scandinavian customers to suddenly decide to fly to Atlanta instead of Chicago just because SAS will be a member of SkyTeam.
I can buy ORD to Florida and points in between, as it is shorter enough after a long flight. Again, most people would not take an 8 hr TATL and then take another 4hrs+ flight to west coast.
Pax can also fly into NY, IAD, or even MIA to transfer onto other east coast final destination.
Jan 23, 2024, 1:25 pm
#594
Join Date: May 2008
Location: ARN
Posts: 3,482
ORD is obviously an O&D route, but it wouldn't be very far fetched to guess that ORD has been the most connection-heavy route in the North American network until now. And ATL will probably take over that role.
Jan 23, 2024, 2:40 pm
#595
Join Date: Dec 2013
Programs: NZ Airpoints GE, Qantas Platinum, Accor Diamond, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 981
73% of passengers are heading to ORD, with the balance going beyond. LAX is the largest connector on the SK service, followed by MSP, LAS, MCI, DEN, IAH, PHX. Though the connections are only 27% of the loadings, the list is long (almost 200 city traffic flows beyond ORD). It is possible that passengers arrive in ORD and overnight before heading elsewhere, in which case the are counted as ORD.
As the only Star Alliance lounge in ORD T5 (I use the Air NZ service) I wonder how the lounge merry go round will resolve. The SK lounge in ORD is very ordinary but serviceable.
As the only Star Alliance lounge in ORD T5 (I use the Air NZ service) I wonder how the lounge merry go round will resolve. The SK lounge in ORD is very ordinary but serviceable.
Jan 24, 2024, 12:43 pm
#596
Join Date: May 2008
Location: ARN
Posts: 3,482
73% of passengers are heading to ORD, with the balance going beyond. LAX is the largest connector on the SK service, followed by MSP, LAS, MCI, DEN, IAH, PHX. Though the connections are only 27% of the loadings, the list is long (almost 200 city traffic flows beyond ORD). It is possible that passengers arrive in ORD and overnight before heading elsewhere, in which case the are counted as ORD.
As the only Star Alliance lounge in ORD T5 (I use the Air NZ service) I wonder how the lounge merry go round will resolve. The SK lounge in ORD is very ordinary but serviceable.
As the only Star Alliance lounge in ORD T5 (I use the Air NZ service) I wonder how the lounge merry go round will resolve. The SK lounge in ORD is very ordinary but serviceable.
Moreover,
1) Are these numbers for ARN-ORD, CPH-ORD, or both?
2) What time period are they from?
The reason why these questions are relevant, is that the current CPH-ORD flight arrives at 18:05. If we presume that the minimum connection time from an international flight is two hours, it's quite obvious that the possibilities of same-day connections is very limited. The ARN-ORD flight, on the other hand, used to arrive shortly after noon, so I would presume that this flight had more connecting passengers than CPH-ORD.
Jan 24, 2024, 2:27 pm
#597
Join Date: Dec 2013
Programs: NZ Airpoints GE, Qantas Platinum, Accor Diamond, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 981
Out of curiosity, how did you acquire these numbers?
Moreover,
1) Are these numbers for ARN-ORD, CPH-ORD, or both?
2) What time period are they from?
The reason why these questions are relevant, is that the current CPH-ORD flight arrives at 18:05. If we presume that the minimum connection time from an international flight is two hours, it's quite obvious that the possibilities of same-day connections is very limited. The ARN-ORD flight, on the other hand, used to arrive shortly after noon, so I would presume that this flight had more connecting passengers than CPH-ORD.
Moreover,
1) Are these numbers for ARN-ORD, CPH-ORD, or both?
2) What time period are they from?
The reason why these questions are relevant, is that the current CPH-ORD flight arrives at 18:05. If we presume that the minimum connection time from an international flight is two hours, it's quite obvious that the possibilities of same-day connections is very limited. The ARN-ORD flight, on the other hand, used to arrive shortly after noon, so I would presume that this flight had more connecting passengers than CPH-ORD.
Jan 24, 2024, 4:27 pm
#598
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tokyo
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Posts: 21,428
Yes, the ARN-ORD has a higher level of connectivity and to similar destinations as the CPH. Some junk yield connectivity appears to MCO on this flight and I am assuming some corporate-specific travel to small destinations like BNA and CMH appear high. Worth noting that ARN produced just over half of the passengers boarding the ORD with loads of rats and mice from all over the SK network behind ARN.
Jan 24, 2024, 4:52 pm
#599
Join Date: Dec 2013
Programs: NZ Airpoints GE, Qantas Platinum, Accor Diamond, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 981
Jan 24, 2024, 10:35 pm
#600
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UME 🇸🇪 / NWI🇬🇧
Programs: SJ, SAS, DL
Posts: 1,726
LH/SK codeshares disappearing?
We have a fairly complex itinerary coming up in June, mostly SK and AC but ticketed by LH because theyre the only airline to be able to get all the flights on one itinerary.
First segment is 13-June-2024 UME-ARN, SK27 but ticketed as LH6261.
Yesterday LH emailed to say this flight had been cancelled. Checked with SK and it hasnt. Cue long and painful back and forth with four different LH agents, who could neither see the flight nor rebook me on the earlier flight on the same day, SK2023 which was still available to new purchases as LH6267.
LH finally rebuilt the itinerary with an SK flight number. The agent wrote back:
Are LH codeshares starting to be scrubbed from SK flights? If this is a rolling process starting in the summer, maybe I can expect my return leg of the same booking to get the same treatment later.
First segment is 13-June-2024 UME-ARN, SK27 but ticketed as LH6261.
Yesterday LH emailed to say this flight had been cancelled. Checked with SK and it hasnt. Cue long and painful back and forth with four different LH agents, who could neither see the flight nor rebook me on the earlier flight on the same day, SK2023 which was still available to new purchases as LH6267.
LH finally rebuilt the itinerary with an SK flight number. The agent wrote back:
Okay. The flight LH6261 is a shared flight between Lufthansa and Scandinavian Airlines. The shared flight is cancelled but the flight itself is operating. I can put the flight back with Scandinavian flight numbers instead as follows: