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Is ARN/CPH -- YYZ already cancelled?

Is ARN/CPH -- YYZ already cancelled?

Old May 17, 2022, 8:09 am
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Unhappy Is ARN/CPH -- YYZ already cancelled?

Was super-happy to see SAS add YYZ. Looking on sas.se for ARN-YYZ in December and only see options via ORD or EWR. Is it a summer-only route? Or not yet in the system? Or have they already given up on it...
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Old May 18, 2022, 7:42 am
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I heard that they are working on the schedule for YYZ from Dec and onwards, will be visible soon !
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Old May 19, 2022, 3:47 am
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Can't wait to see how hilariously poor this route will perform.
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Old May 19, 2022, 5:32 pm
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Originally Posted by FlyingMoose
Can't wait to see how hilariously poor this route will perform.
Can it do worse than CPH-SEA?
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Old May 19, 2022, 11:40 pm
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At Routes Europe 2022, van der Werff said that the A321LR allowed SAS to test routes like ARN/CPH-YYZ. To describe it as a test a few weeks before the first flight seems rather muted.
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Old May 20, 2022, 2:01 am
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Originally Posted by jamesbrownontheroad
At Routes Europe 2022, van der Werff said that the A321LR allowed SAS to test routes like ARN/CPH-YYZ. To describe it as a test a few weeks before the first flight seems rather muted.
Delta has quite the history of launching routes to test them and then adjusting the route network as made sense for them. Sometimes even canning a route before its even (or ever) been flown by Delta.

Experimenting with new routes can work well, or it can work poorly. How much of it is like a monkey picking stocks by throwing darts at a WSJ stock listing page or two? Not enough to be a long term success, so they dont have monkeys blindly throwing darts; but they do other things to try to make educated guesses as part of business experimentation.
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Old May 20, 2022, 2:10 am
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CPH-YYZ the timing is just wrong, AC is flying the same route with their 787, AC has better inflight service than SK, and will get to YYZ faster. SK might get the planes filled up if the cruises are back.

As long as China is closed, SK can use the chance to fly pax from China via Europe to North America
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Old May 20, 2022, 4:37 am
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I used to do a lot of CPH-YYZ on AC. In business, AC CPH-YYZ didn't seem much more special to me than SAS TATL. The reason I went for AC in business was because the YYZ-US onward segments on AC in business were a better product and service (and sometimes schedule/schedule reliability) than US airlines would often have for me if instead taking SAS and flying onward in the US from SK’s US ports of entry.

When not flying business, then SAS is another story.
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Old May 21, 2022, 3:54 am
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
Can it do worse than CPH-SEA?
CPH-SEA in 2008 or in 2022? I would imagine that nowadays with tech sectors between SEA and the Nordics travel demand to SEA greatly outweighs travel demand to YYZ.

Originally Posted by GUWonder
Experimenting with new routes can work well, or it can work poorly.
SK's track record in this area is leaning towards the latter.

Originally Posted by GUWonder
I used to do a lot of CPH-YYZ on AC. In business, AC CPH-YYZ didn't seem much more special to me than SAS TATL. The reason I went for AC in business was because the YYZ-US onward segments on AC in business were a better product and service (and sometimes schedule/schedule reliability) than US airlines would often have for me if instead taking SAS and flying onward in the US from SK’s US ports of entry.
I appreciated the CPH-YYZ service because it was the only direct Nordics-Canada connection and when AC switched it to 787 it was great for YYZ travel. I've never seen any value in using it as a connection because of the long immigration queues and inefficient transfers at YYZ. It is more convenient to grab a connection from AMS/CDG/LHR to your final destination in Canada. If I had to travel to YYZ tomorrow then I would skip the SK short-haul service from ARN and transfer in CPH to AC despite my hatred for CPH.

Last edited by FlyingMoose; May 21, 2022 at 4:01 am
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Old May 24, 2022, 7:45 am
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Originally Posted by FlyingMoose
I appreciated the CPH-YYZ service because it was the only direct Nordics-Canada connection and when AC switched it to 787 it was great for YYZ travel. I've never seen any value in using it as a connection because of the long immigration queues and inefficient transfers at YYZ. It is more convenient to grab a connection from AMS/CDG/LHR to your final destination in Canada. If I had to travel to YYZ tomorrow then I would skip the SK short-haul service from ARN and transfer in CPH to AC despite my hatred for CPH.
I agree if your connection is to dom. Canada, YYZ is a very poor choice for the above reasons and AC`s OTP AC now ranked "one of the worst performers" for OTP - FlyerTalk Forums, which could prove to be a problem for connecting SK passengers, if they decide to go for it.
My CPH-YUL commute is very rarely via YYZ, as i have learned AC`s OTP for dom. flights the hard way.

This combined with the fact that the Maple leaf lounges (Int, Transborder and dom) at YYZ, beeing a far cry from its European counterparts (and the YUL int. MLL for that matter) makes it a hard sell for me.
For these reasons I wouldn't choose SK or AC for CPH-YYZ-YUL.

On the other hand AC`s Signature (J) ground product (except R class, excluded from the mentioned benefits) is a whole other story, with the amazing YYZ Signature suite lounge and Chauffeur gate transfer.
SAS wouldent be able compete with this, if one had a connection to the US or further south (only available if you have a int to US or Int to int connction).

So my money is on it being a short visit for SK in YYZ if any visit at all?

Last edited by Stil; May 24, 2022 at 4:05 pm
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Old May 27, 2022, 3:53 am
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Also most connections to the US don't make any sense. Even if you would insist on using YYZ as a transfer, SK already flies to most relevant US East Coast airports from CPH/ARN so you would just take a flight directly to the US or layover in EWR (perhaps just as terrible as YYZ for transfers) or ORD. You would probably never use YYZ as a transfer airport for connecting to the West Coast just like you would most likely not use EWR/MIA for that.

SK just doesn't have a whole lot of relevant destinations to use the 321LR for from an airport like ARN and other than YYZ or some destinations in India, I doubt there is much. So the experimentation argument from SK's CEO is questionable.
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Old May 27, 2022, 4:12 am
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Originally Posted by FlyingMoose
Also most connections to the US don't make any sense. Even if you would insist on using YYZ as a transfer, SK already flies to most relevant US East Coast airports from CPH/ARN so you would just take a flight directly to the US or layover in EWR (perhaps just as terrible as YYZ for transfers) or ORD. You would probably never use YYZ as a transfer airport for connecting to the West Coast just like you would most likely not use EWR/MIA for that.

SK just doesn't have a whole lot of relevant destinations to use the 321LR for from an airport like ARN and other than YYZ or some destinations in India, I doubt there is much. So the experimentation argument from SK's CEO is questionable.
When Russian airspace and China eventually reopens, they could reach Beijing, and probably Shanghai from Arlanda. I am not sure what the business potential from Swedish industry is, but there are some major African destinations that could be in range as well.
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Old May 27, 2022, 4:26 am
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They could start flying to LGA (New York) instead of New Jersey (EWR) 😁

Joke aside, It's going to be uphill for SK, not only with the destinations for the 321LR, but in general. That though, is a whole other story (said by a long time EBG that abandoned ship 10 years ago).

Air Transat (TS) was supposed to have summer flights from YUL to CPH, commencing 2020 (can't remember how many weekly flights). It never materialised for obvious reasons.
It would have been interesting to see the load factor from a leasure travel perspective.

Yes, im just dreaming of a direct route CPH-YUL. Did you hear that SK, no matter how short lived 😉
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Old May 27, 2022, 6:18 am
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Can't get my head around this one. Would there be any Fifth freedom routes out there that would make sence with 321LR? Or would it make sense at all?
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Old May 29, 2022, 8:48 am
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Originally Posted by stil
can't get my head around this one. Would there be any fifth freedom routes out there that would make sence with 321lr? Or would it make sense at all?
cph-yyz-yyc-yyz-cph? Cph-yyz-yul-cph?
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