fassy

Shouldn't the vaccinated be protected against contracting the virus... well... let's not get there. But since a "not-vaccinated pax" cannot fly without a negative Covid19 test... actually it should be statistically safer to sit next to an unvaccinated person than next to an untested but vaccinated person.

vanillabean

Except at the extremes. People who are very unvaccinated are also very unmask. And people who are very vaccinated often still keep the mask on; my county here in the Bay Area, likely still the county in the entire US with the highest vaccination rate, is an example. In between it's often one thing, say coronapas, rather than another, say masks.

the810

Europe is very different than US. Masks aren't a political issue, except far right.

As someone who had very averse reaction to first dose and therefore didn't receive the second, I find COVID pass and masks as equally bad and both will cause me to cancel my trips to CPH. But I understand that other people perceive things different.

RedChili

Couldn't agree more.

In the first place, the vaccines were only meant to prevent serious illness, and they were never meant to prevent virus transmission at all. And now, with hindsight, we know that most of the protection offered by the vaccines dissipates within 2-6 months. There was a recent study of 600,000 U.S. veterans which showed that the protection offered by the Janssen vaccine fell from 88% in March to only 3% in August, a mere five months later. And yet, people who can show evidence that they've had a Janssen vaccine can travel freely to many countries without any covid test whatsoever. Moreover, many vaccinated people live under the delusion that they can't infect others because they've been vaccinated.

nacho

If one is vaccinated doesn't mean that one is immune to Covid-19, a vaccinated person can still carry and spread the virus. So yes your statement is true. However, most of the positive cases in DK are from non-vaccinated people.

I know PCR is still needed to fly to the US for everyone. Again, it's possible that someone get infected right after walking out from a test centre. I have seen people reporting that someone got it on a flight despite negative PCR for all pax.

fassy

Well, yes. Not arguing that it is more likely to contract the virus and get sick if you are not vaccinated. But I'm also very skeptical around the reporting. Like in Germany, ONLY not vaccinated people do regular tests while vaccinated will only get tested if they are hospitalized or seriously sick. So guess what group is reported to have most of the virus cases - not taking into consideration the severity of symptoms?

GUWonder

Vaccinated US citizens are required to meet the US testing standard requirement to fly by common carrier means to the US. Unvaccinated travelers are also required to meet the US testing standard requirement to fly to the US on SAS or the other common carriers. Antigen tests are as acceptable for travel to the US as PCR tests.

Masks are a layer or protection against Covid-19, and so are vaccinations; and so is testing. Much like driving in a safety-inspection tested car with a seatbelt better protects the vehicle occupants than riding without a helmet on a build-it-yourself motorcycle while speeding like crazy in moose country on the way to see Pippi Longstocking. Ewwww. They will make it fine most times, but it doesn’t take genius to know which of those two types of travels is going to be more likely to come with a human head becoming one with the asphalt.

fassy

Well, true if you look at US-EU flights. But for European flights, there is no test requirement for vaccinated pax.

Yeah, that is a good thing... no idea why most European governments blankly refuse to accept antigen testing....

GUWonder

When I used to get tested to enter Denmark, they accepted antigen tests from me.

vanillabean

There are twice as many getting infected per 100K among 6-11 year olds compared to the highly socially active 20-39s, largely because those Danish children aren’t yet eligible for vaccination.

In my county here in the Bay Area, 5-11s recently became eligible. They may soon have to show a CDC card to go see The Nutcracker!

And you’re not alone.

fassy

Just checked... seems that the antigen test have actually picked up in acceptance. Even good ol'Germany now accepts them. Very good.

the810

As far as I recall, antigen tests have been accepted by most member states for months, despite their unreliability.

nacho

True. In Denmark the testing is more widespread and free so people do that if they are asked.

My kid's school has almost whole classes being sent home (5-11 years) and I talked to some people that they have been infected more than 2 times after they are fully vaccinated.

I don't understand why governments are now counting number of cases vs deaths. If this is like a flu, and it's flu season now, a lot of people bound to get it on and off. I was asking Mr. why doesn't the Danish government vaccinates the 5-11 years old and he said it's because the children don't get hit so much and no one knows if the vaccines are 100% safe.

GUWonder

I have zero doubt that Denmark will follow the US in allowing for vaccinating 5-11 year olds against Covid-19 too.

RedChili

I've heard the Danish prime minister, and other politicians around Europe, claim this, but I've never seen any of them back it up with hard facts. Do you know any hard numbers that can corroborate this claim?

But anyway, remember that we're already talking about an extremely low risk of infection in the first place. The latest incidence rate figures I can find from the ECDC is 338 for Denmark, 211 for Norway, and 108 for Sweden. If we assume that these are all symptomatic and stay at home, and if we assume that there's an equal number of asymptomatic people, and if we assume that you're infections for 10 days, it means that one out of every 414 Danish passengers is possibly infectious, one out of every 664 Norwegian passengers is possibly infectious, and one out of every 1,296 Swedish passengers is possibly infectious. If they're traveling internationally and need a negative test of a type that has a 95% sensitivity, it means that the possibly infectious passengers drop to one out of every 8,280 Danes, one out of every 13,280 Norwegians, and one out of every 25,920 Swedes. The risk of actually ending up next to an infected person is negligible.

When you add the protection offered by the hepa filters onboard, and when you add that many people are protected against the virus either by having been exposed to the virus previously, or by having T-cell immunity from another coronavirus, or from having been vaccinated during the past 2-3 months, the risk is even smaller.