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What do you think? Bankrupt or not bankrupt

What do you think? Bankrupt or not bankrupt

Old Nov 16, 12, 3:58 am
  #1  
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Question What do you think? Bankrupt or not bankrupt

So the talk around town is whether SAS will go bankrupt or not.

I believe the unions have until Sunday evening (18.11.2012) and I was wondering what the general feeling is in here?

I personally believe there is too much pride and politics involved so we'll see SAS operating beyond 31 Dec 2012...
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Old Nov 16, 12, 5:52 am
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I hope you are right, but I fear the worst and suspect that we will see SAS bankrupt within a year.

Maybe we should have a contest (similar to the Kingfisher thread in the Airlines of India forum) where we see who can come closest to predicting the date (or maybe time in the case it comes on Monday).
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Old Nov 16, 12, 10:53 am
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We were planning on taking them from Amsterdam to Copenhagen next June to connect to a cruise (evening bfore the cruise, after a conference in Rotterdam). Other options out of Amsterdam not requiring an overnight (in Riga or Helsinki) much pricier, so may have to consider planniing on taking a longer train ride and flying out of Brussels on Air Brussels to get to Copenhagen.

2 hour advance check-in time for either?
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Old Nov 17, 12, 6:13 am
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I still buy a lot of SK tickets, but obviously using credit cards to protect my money in case of bankrupcy. I have trips to Sogndal (all WF, so more secure than SK itself, technically being a separate company), Narvik and Haugesund coming up the next week, and have to go by SK (or by bus to MOL to fly DY, which I don't particularly want to)

SAS has for many years suffered from too many unions blackmailing the company: one for each profession in each countries. Even though the Norwegian unions regularly strike in May every two years, the worst unions for creating havoc have been the Danish unions. The Danish pilot's unions is essentially treatening to bankrupt SAS by refusing to accept the reorganization plan. This is a strategy that have worked very well for them earlier, but my feeling this time is that their bluff will be called. I suspect that a bakrupcy would be easier to handle for the authorities than a negotiated dismantling.

In the Norwegian media and non-flyer news websites there generally is a feeling that SAS Norge would be better off on its own. SAS exists to have Norwegians pay to change planes in Copenhagen to pay Swedish directors is a common sentiment. The success of Norwegian shows that having a multi-national airline is not a necessity for giving good domestic and international connections.

So I expect the Danish pilots will force a bankrupcy, with SAS ceasing operations on Tuesday morning.
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Old Nov 17, 12, 7:40 am
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Originally Posted by SoCal View Post
We were planning on taking them from Amsterdam to Copenhagen next June to connect to a cruise (evening bfore the cruise, after a conference in Rotterdam). Other options out of Amsterdam not requiring an overnight (in Riga or Helsinki) much pricier, so may have to consider planniing on taking a longer train ride and flying out of Brussels on Air Brussels to get to Copenhagen.
Are you insisting upon *A? Otherwise, fly Norwegian or KLM from AMS.

And the train trip to BRU s not that long from Rotterdam. About two hours to the airport.

Originally Posted by SoCal View Post
2 hour advance check-in time for either?
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Old Nov 17, 12, 9:59 am
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Originally Posted by SoCal View Post
We were planning on taking them from Amsterdam to Copenhagen next June to connect to a cruise (evening bfore the cruise, after a conference in Rotterdam). Other options out of Amsterdam not requiring an overnight (in Riga or Helsinki) much pricier, so may have to consider planniing on taking a longer train ride and flying out of Brussels on Air Brussels to get to Copenhagen.

2 hour advance check-in time for either?
Or you could even take an even longer train trip. There is a direct night train with sleeping cars from Amsterdam (dep. Amsterdam Centraal 19.01, arriving København Hovedbanegård the next morning at 10.07). Can be booked online through www.bahn.de. Prices including sleeping car from 238 Euros total O/W for two people. Saves on hotel.
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Old Nov 17, 12, 9:20 pm
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I have a ticket booked in February for TLL-CPH-LHR on OV and SK. I guess that makes me quite a risk-taker since both carriers have had talks of bankruptcy lately.

I booked with my credit card, and the total ticket cost was $170, so I'm not too concerned.

As for SK going bankrupt, I wish I knew more about the business culture in the three governments that control SK. To me, it's really hard to predict the outcome.
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Old Nov 18, 12, 1:47 am
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I actually believe that it is very hard to predict outcome.

Also for those who live there. "Uncontrolled" airline bunkrupcies in Scandinavia last several years have been a part of the reality. We have seen Cimber going down, earlier Sterling going down. Earlier there was FlyMe and I am sure I forgot a few others. We all know that bunkrupcy is clearly a possibilty. Also governments have very different attitute towards state owned businesses than a few years ago. DSB, for instance, regularly needs to face tough and non-obvious negotiations with their owner. SAS is certainly less dear to the Danish government heart than DSB.

On the other hand SAS is SAS .... :P
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Old Nov 18, 12, 12:55 pm
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If you want a update go to
www.thelocal.se Swedish news in English .. It doesn't look good
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Old Nov 18, 12, 1:14 pm
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Angry

Originally Posted by Flyiboy View Post
If you want a update go to
www.thelocal.se Swedish news in English .. It doesn't look good
It looks VERY bad. SAS has just refused the final offer of the pilots, and have still formally not answered the C/As offer this morning (but have stated to the media that it was unacceptable)
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Old Nov 18, 12, 6:03 pm
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by the way on a connected subject

Do you think Estonian Air will go bankrupt if SK goes under? ARN/CPH/OSL is their main operation and a cash cow, most other destinations are loss makers and those 3 routes are living on SK codeshare and connections. Fair to say there are plenty of OD pax to OSL, less to ARN and by far less to CPH.

Given a very shaky state of OV today, when Government openly said there are only two options: cash injection (already applied to EU for clearance) or bankruptcy, it could be a determination factor, don't you think so?
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Old Nov 18, 12, 6:58 pm
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Latest news is that 1 of the 8 unions now actually have signed a deal.

Being a Scandinavian myself I have a feeling that SAS will be seen in the air also in 2013, however I won't expect miracles in terms of the long term situation for the airline.
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Old Nov 18, 12, 7:20 pm
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Originally Posted by another_shot View Post
by the way on a connected subject

Do you think Estonian Air will go bankrupt if SK goes under? ARN/CPH/OSL is their main operation and a cash cow, most other destinations are loss makers and those 3 routes are living on SK codeshare and connections. Fair to say there are plenty of OD pax to OSL, less to ARN and by far less to CPH.

Given a very shaky state of OV today, when Government openly said there are only two options: cash injection (already applied to EU for clearance) or bankruptcy, it could be a determination factor, don't you think so?
If they can't make money even they are feeding traffic to SK, I cannot figure out how they could survive... RIX, HEL, CPH,ARN&LED are so close... Even marketing support to Ryanair would be much smarter than another cash injection to OV...
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Old Nov 18, 12, 7:20 pm
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If SAS goes bankrupt I'm gonna be pissed!
I just got my eurobonus gold card in the post a few days ago and I have 4 SAS flights in the next 3 weeks.
Fingers crossed they pull through.
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Old Nov 18, 12, 7:38 pm
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Originally Posted by meheeco View Post
Latest news is that 1 of the 8 unions now actually have signed a deal.

Being a Scandinavian myself I have a feeling that SAS will be seen in the air also in 2013, however I won't expect miracles in terms of the long term situation for the airline.
2 down, 6 to go...
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