MilesBar - An Open Letter From S. Chenowyth
Jun 13, 2001, 2:37 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 10
MilesBar - An Open Letter From S. Chenowyth
Dear Valued MilesBar Members,
First, we take this opportunity to thank you for your membership in the MilesBar program.
Imagine walking into your favorite restaurant and asking the owner of the restaurant about the recipes, actual cost of the food and his profit margin on the food before you place an order. What do you think his or her response would be? Unless the owner happens to be a good friend of yours, chances are the owner would not share this privileged information with his or her customers. The same applies to some aspects of the MilesBar program as well, even though, we believe in open communication and sharing as much information about our program as possible. The MilesBar program has an exclusive contract with a vendor that is among the largest providers of premier loyalty and incentives programs in the United States. This vendor is one of the top buyers of incentive miles from all major domestic and international airlines. Our agreement with this vendor allows us to purchase miles in the participating frequent flier programs at a very lucrative price. Unfortunately, per our agreement, we are unable to reveal the name of this vendor at this point in time. However, this could change in the near future, as we seek their permission to use their name and logo on our site.
Elite Platinum members are our most valued members. We are working hard to add new enhancements to the Elite Platinum program to make it easier and faster for you to earn free travel and recurring cash income. We understand that we are not always able to meet your expectations however rest assured we will continue to improve ourselves with the aim to making MilesBar the best member incentive program on the Internet.
Respectfully,
S. Chenowyth,
MilesBar Charter Team
MilesBar.com
First, we take this opportunity to thank you for your membership in the MilesBar program.
Imagine walking into your favorite restaurant and asking the owner of the restaurant about the recipes, actual cost of the food and his profit margin on the food before you place an order. What do you think his or her response would be? Unless the owner happens to be a good friend of yours, chances are the owner would not share this privileged information with his or her customers. The same applies to some aspects of the MilesBar program as well, even though, we believe in open communication and sharing as much information about our program as possible. The MilesBar program has an exclusive contract with a vendor that is among the largest providers of premier loyalty and incentives programs in the United States. This vendor is one of the top buyers of incentive miles from all major domestic and international airlines. Our agreement with this vendor allows us to purchase miles in the participating frequent flier programs at a very lucrative price. Unfortunately, per our agreement, we are unable to reveal the name of this vendor at this point in time. However, this could change in the near future, as we seek their permission to use their name and logo on our site.
Elite Platinum members are our most valued members. We are working hard to add new enhancements to the Elite Platinum program to make it easier and faster for you to earn free travel and recurring cash income. We understand that we are not always able to meet your expectations however rest assured we will continue to improve ourselves with the aim to making MilesBar the best member incentive program on the Internet.
Respectfully,
S. Chenowyth,
MilesBar Charter Team
MilesBar.com
Jun 13, 2001, 4:52 pm
#2
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Los Angeles, CA, US
Posts: 58
Yes, but if you go to a restaurant and your food never arrives, you leave without paying. At Miles Bar, Platinum members are asked to pay a monthly fee in order to receive benefits that may never materialize.
Many points/miles websites have gone out of business recently, and surely you must understand that many people are afraid to pay for something that they may never receive. I personally had accrued miles at a dot-com that has gone out of business and I will never see those miles. That is why at other sites, such as Click Rewards or My Points, I cash in for my reward as soon as possible. It would be foolish to leave a few thousand miles in your Click Rewards account when the company could go out of business tomorrow. That is my great fear with Dash.com, since those miles sit in the account for months before they are transferred to my frequent flyer account.
Many points/miles websites have gone out of business recently, and surely you must understand that many people are afraid to pay for something that they may never receive. I personally had accrued miles at a dot-com that has gone out of business and I will never see those miles. That is why at other sites, such as Click Rewards or My Points, I cash in for my reward as soon as possible. It would be foolish to leave a few thousand miles in your Click Rewards account when the company could go out of business tomorrow. That is my great fear with Dash.com, since those miles sit in the account for months before they are transferred to my frequent flyer account.
Jun 13, 2001, 5:36 pm
#3
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 70
Since you used the restaurant analogy, I'll use the same:
If I go to a restaurant and see a Pizza Hut logo, and then go in and find out the food stinks and its not really Pizza Hut but some fake fraud liars, I will be sure to ask a lot of questions, not to mention be pissed off.
If MilesBar was a restaurant, it would be one that illegally displays Pizza Hut, TGI Fridays, Denny's, and Lonestar logos, serves you a drop of Pepsi for the price of a pitcher, asks you to give your wallet to a sleazy badly dressed thug at the entrance before you sit down to dine, doesn't bring you food, or even present a menu for several hours after you have been seated, before you finally realize the food wont come because they don't have a kitchen....
Of course what I'm referring to is all the airline logos on MilesBar's website, even though it has no connection with any of the airlines (I have checked), offers you like 25 "miles" per day of surfing, takes your credit card number and detailed profile info over an UNSECURE, badly designed 3rd party website that looks anything BUT professional, and doesn't have a product ready for several months.
Wake up people, this is fraud and nothing but fraud. don't be the sucker!
If I go to a restaurant and see a Pizza Hut logo, and then go in and find out the food stinks and its not really Pizza Hut but some fake fraud liars, I will be sure to ask a lot of questions, not to mention be pissed off.
If MilesBar was a restaurant, it would be one that illegally displays Pizza Hut, TGI Fridays, Denny's, and Lonestar logos, serves you a drop of Pepsi for the price of a pitcher, asks you to give your wallet to a sleazy badly dressed thug at the entrance before you sit down to dine, doesn't bring you food, or even present a menu for several hours after you have been seated, before you finally realize the food wont come because they don't have a kitchen....
Of course what I'm referring to is all the airline logos on MilesBar's website, even though it has no connection with any of the airlines (I have checked), offers you like 25 "miles" per day of surfing, takes your credit card number and detailed profile info over an UNSECURE, badly designed 3rd party website that looks anything BUT professional, and doesn't have a product ready for several months.
Wake up people, this is fraud and nothing but fraud. don't be the sucker!
Jun 13, 2001, 6:37 pm
#4
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Annapolis, MD
Posts: 483
Why in the world would one of the "largest providers of premier loyalty and incentives programs in the United States" not want you to reveal that you are their customer? Every legitimate loyalty and incentives company I know of proudly lists their customers in press releases and on their web sites. In addition, I would ask other flyertalkers to list any "loyalty and incentives" company that offers miles on all the airlines MilesBar lists? The only program I know of that offers miles at all is VacationMiles and they only offer miles on American Airlines®, Delta Air Lines®, and Continental Airlines®. Furthermore, if you have an "exclusive contract" with this mysterious company, you have nothing to worry about by divulging its name since none of your competitors could break the "exclusive contract".
Since you brought up the resteraunt analogy, lets look at it closer. We are not asking you for your recipies, we are asking you for the source of your food. I don't know a good resteraunt that wouldn't proudly tell you where they got that great fish you just had, especially if they had an "exclusive contract" with the fish seller. Asking you for your recipies, cost of your food, or profit margins would be more akin to getting a copy of your business model or posing as an advertiser to find out what info you will pass on to your paying customers (not a bad idea, really), and none of us are doing that. You may be legit, but you have done little to prove it and your responses so far bring up more questions then answers. You are best off answering honestly or just remaining silent, not trying to "spin" it to us.
Since you brought up the resteraunt analogy, lets look at it closer. We are not asking you for your recipies, we are asking you for the source of your food. I don't know a good resteraunt that wouldn't proudly tell you where they got that great fish you just had, especially if they had an "exclusive contract" with the fish seller. Asking you for your recipies, cost of your food, or profit margins would be more akin to getting a copy of your business model or posing as an advertiser to find out what info you will pass on to your paying customers (not a bad idea, really), and none of us are doing that. You may be legit, but you have done little to prove it and your responses so far bring up more questions then answers. You are best off answering honestly or just remaining silent, not trying to "spin" it to us.
Jun 13, 2001, 8:12 pm
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 10
Thank you sftrick, custombagel, and CG for your response to my post. All of you have made good points and I appreciate the opportunity of continued dialogue.
I do realize that these are not the best times for the Internet. Every day we hear the bad news of one or the other dot com failing or closing their doors. Given this environment, I can certainly relate to many of your anxieties and understand exactly how you may feel about a new company like MilesBar entering this arena.
While there are no true guarantees in business, the main point, I would like to convey to you is that we started MilesBar with the long term view in mind. There may appear to be shortcomings in the process but rest assured our main goal is to make MilesBar a platform, for all members in general and Elite Platinum members in particular, for earning free travel and long term recurring income and other benefits. As mentioned in my earlier post, we will share more information with all of you about the airline mileage transfer option in the near future.
Respectfully,
S. Chenowyth,
MilesBar Charter Team
I do realize that these are not the best times for the Internet. Every day we hear the bad news of one or the other dot com failing or closing their doors. Given this environment, I can certainly relate to many of your anxieties and understand exactly how you may feel about a new company like MilesBar entering this arena.
While there are no true guarantees in business, the main point, I would like to convey to you is that we started MilesBar with the long term view in mind. There may appear to be shortcomings in the process but rest assured our main goal is to make MilesBar a platform, for all members in general and Elite Platinum members in particular, for earning free travel and long term recurring income and other benefits. As mentioned in my earlier post, we will share more information with all of you about the airline mileage transfer option in the near future.
Respectfully,
S. Chenowyth,
MilesBar Charter Team
Jun 13, 2001, 8:54 pm
#6
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 70
"the near future" has been your standard answer for a few months mr milesbar. The only value proposition of your so-called business is that it allows people to earn miles. If you folks haven't figured out how to give miles to your customers, and are still trying to buy time, then why are currently doing business on your web site ? Shouldn't you put a disclaimer somewhere that says, we haven't figured out how to give miles, so even though you may pay us, we are still not sure what you will get in return? If you don't put a warning of this sort on your website, then you're not doing business in good faith and you are conducting fraud.
If I go to a restaurant, and they are going to take a few hours to have the meals ready, I expect to be told that so I don't waste my time (and money in your case)
If I go to a restaurant, and they are going to take a few hours to have the meals ready, I expect to be told that so I don't waste my time (and money in your case)
Jun 13, 2001, 9:32 pm
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 10
Thank you custombagel for your response.
Our members are currently earning miles through the MilesBar program. These miles are immediately redeemable for free travel per the MilesBar Reward Chart. The additional benefit or option of Mileage Transfer to other frequent flier program, available only to Elite Platinum members, is what is being discussed here. This too is currently in place through our vendor.
As a part of FlyerTalk community, I am sure you have seen hundreds of offers from third party companies offering frequent flier miles in return of a purchase of their product or service. These companies too buy miles either directly from the airlines or through a vendor that specializes in these type of incentives. This is not an unusual thing. You can perhaps check it directly with most airlines and they are most happy to give you info on buying miles as incentives, rewards or for gift. Once purchased these miles can be applied towards their frequent flier program and the miles can be designated to any of their members. Most airlines are actively promoting purchasing miles from them to be offered as corporate or sales incentives.
I hope the above clarifies the misunderstanding. Thank you for your time and the opportunity to clarify.
Respectfully,
S. Chenowyth
MilesBar Charter Team
Our members are currently earning miles through the MilesBar program. These miles are immediately redeemable for free travel per the MilesBar Reward Chart. The additional benefit or option of Mileage Transfer to other frequent flier program, available only to Elite Platinum members, is what is being discussed here. This too is currently in place through our vendor.
As a part of FlyerTalk community, I am sure you have seen hundreds of offers from third party companies offering frequent flier miles in return of a purchase of their product or service. These companies too buy miles either directly from the airlines or through a vendor that specializes in these type of incentives. This is not an unusual thing. You can perhaps check it directly with most airlines and they are most happy to give you info on buying miles as incentives, rewards or for gift. Once purchased these miles can be applied towards their frequent flier program and the miles can be designated to any of their members. Most airlines are actively promoting purchasing miles from them to be offered as corporate or sales incentives.
I hope the above clarifies the misunderstanding. Thank you for your time and the opportunity to clarify.
Respectfully,
S. Chenowyth
MilesBar Charter Team
Jun 13, 2001, 10:27 pm
#8
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: New Orleans, LA USA
Posts: 63
Since members of flyertalk are asking questions ... here's a few ...
1. Why is it that milesbar does not have any contact information (physical address, phone number, etc...) on your website? And why is it that your "office" phone number 310-507-0146 is not answered as "milesbar" but is answered with a generic answering machine message? If milesbar is doing as much marketing to advertisers as is claimed on the website would you not expect advertisers would expect the phone to be answered professionally?
2. Why is it that Northwest, Continental, Delta (and the list goes on) have NEVER heard of milesbar?
3. You advertise on the milesbar site that you give 5% of miles accumulated in the milesbar system to CARE (a non-profit charity). Can you supply any documentation from CARE substantiating this?
4. What hotels and car rental companies offer the "Special offers on worldwide hotel stay & car rentals" advertised on your site?
Thank you for your response.
1. Why is it that milesbar does not have any contact information (physical address, phone number, etc...) on your website? And why is it that your "office" phone number 310-507-0146 is not answered as "milesbar" but is answered with a generic answering machine message? If milesbar is doing as much marketing to advertisers as is claimed on the website would you not expect advertisers would expect the phone to be answered professionally?
2. Why is it that Northwest, Continental, Delta (and the list goes on) have NEVER heard of milesbar?
3. You advertise on the milesbar site that you give 5% of miles accumulated in the milesbar system to CARE (a non-profit charity). Can you supply any documentation from CARE substantiating this?
4. What hotels and car rental companies offer the "Special offers on worldwide hotel stay & car rentals" advertised on your site?
Thank you for your response.
Jun 14, 2001, 5:46 am
#9
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: From and of Boston.
Posts: 4,973
Thank you, milesbar (Mr/Ms Chenowyth), for your articulate responses. Communications is always helpful.
My gut reaction, though, is that Speedily a Tale is Spun; With Much Less Speed the Deed is Done. Which is the prolix way of saying that Talk is Cheap.
My gut reaction, though, is that Speedily a Tale is Spun; With Much Less Speed the Deed is Done. Which is the prolix way of saying that Talk is Cheap.
Jun 14, 2001, 5:55 am
#10
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 46,817
Using your analogy then, as in a restaurant, one may effectively cancel their milesbar order and not pay? You will provide refunds to customers who request it before their "food" is cooked and delivered tableside?
Jun 14, 2001, 9:15 am
#11
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 60
Just to add another bit of information: I have tried to cancel the payments through paysystems and they also have no human body answering the phone, possibly the same answering machine as milesbar! Also they do not return your call. Is there a BBB controling Internet business and if so does anyone have the e-mail address. I bet they answer their e-mails. I have tried to cancel my membership for 4 months with milesbar and the payments are still withdrawn, How do we get rid of this dotcom!
Jun 14, 2001, 9:43 am
#12
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 60
Just did alittle searching on milesbar website. Go to login, then hit the back button and there is a disclaimer to hit on the bottom, this is the only page that you can access this disclaimer on, it is not present on any other page. Basicly they are saying here that they can take your money and give you nothing. Just read it, it is very enlightening! If this disclaimer was on the home page or anywhere else we would not have joined. So ironic that you cannot access it anywhere else. This is the first that I have seen it. Sue and and her good supporter Judyjfla are toast. I am not being rude to other users of this board but the milesbar company.
Jun 14, 2001, 10:24 am
#13
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: New Orleans, LA USA
Posts: 63
And here are some more questions that should be answered by milesbar:
1. The milesbar site states that miles may be used for "online shopping." Since milesbar refuses to tell us the name of the "mileage vendor," surely milesbar would have no objection to sharing with it's members the names of thier "online shopping" partners. So, who are they?
2. What are they "special email offers" advertised in the milesbar site?
3. What does milesbar intend to do about the credit cards of members who have canceled the service continuing to be charged monthly sometimes three plus months after the cancellation?
4. What does milesbar intend to do about miles that have mysteriously "dissapeared" from it's members BV accounts? Will these miles be returned to the members?
5. Is milesbar cooperating with the one major airline that has launched an "investigation" into milesbar because milesbar is using their logo and stating their participation in the milesbar plan without the airline's approval?
And finally, not to be rude to JudyJFla, but over a month ago she said she was about to redeem her 25,000 miles for a free ticket. Did she? And, since she is milesbar's biggest supporter would she be willing to fax to someone a copy of her ticket stubs?
1. The milesbar site states that miles may be used for "online shopping." Since milesbar refuses to tell us the name of the "mileage vendor," surely milesbar would have no objection to sharing with it's members the names of thier "online shopping" partners. So, who are they?
2. What are they "special email offers" advertised in the milesbar site?
3. What does milesbar intend to do about the credit cards of members who have canceled the service continuing to be charged monthly sometimes three plus months after the cancellation?
4. What does milesbar intend to do about miles that have mysteriously "dissapeared" from it's members BV accounts? Will these miles be returned to the members?
5. Is milesbar cooperating with the one major airline that has launched an "investigation" into milesbar because milesbar is using their logo and stating their participation in the milesbar plan without the airline's approval?
And finally, not to be rude to JudyJFla, but over a month ago she said she was about to redeem her 25,000 miles for a free ticket. Did she? And, since she is milesbar's biggest supporter would she be willing to fax to someone a copy of her ticket stubs?
Jun 14, 2001, 10:31 am
#14
Join Date: May 2001
Location: "Sinner on the mainland; he's a sinner on the sea"
Programs: AA, UA, HH, WOH, Bonvoy
Posts: 6,088
As a part of FlyerTalk community, I am sure you have seen hundreds of offers from third party companies offering frequent flier miles in return of a purchase of their product or service.
Sure we have: myreceivables.com, shop4.com, and that car quote thing on aolaadvantage just to name a few sites which promise miles in exchange for business or personal information and never deliver.
Somebody forgot to tell these guys that the alladvantage business model crashed some time ago.
Sure we have: myreceivables.com, shop4.com, and that car quote thing on aolaadvantage just to name a few sites which promise miles in exchange for business or personal information and never deliver.
Somebody forgot to tell these guys that the alladvantage business model crashed some time ago.
Jun 14, 2001, 11:21 am
#15
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Newark, New Jersey - Hilton Gold, UA Premier
Posts: 149
Disclaimer
We appreciate your interest in us. Nonetheless, we have laid down a few guidelines to ensure this site and services provided are useful, interesting, and safe at all times. MilesBar.com reserves the right to change these guidelines and disclaimers at any time, and you agree that every visit you make to the website and use our services shall be subject to the most current guidelines.
The Website also contains links to sites that are not maintained by MilesBar.com. We do not hold responsibility for the content of these sites and thus, cannot guarantee that they will not change their content without our knowledge. The inclusion of a link in the Website does not imply MilesBar.com's endorsement of the site.
The services, software, materials and information you find on the website are provided on a "as is" basis, without warranty of any kind, either expressed or implied (including without limitation any warranty for information, services, or products provided through) or in association with the website and any implied warranties of merchantability for a particular purpose, accuracy, completeness, and expectation of privacy or non-infringement.
In no event shall MilesBar.com or any third party provider be liable for any injury, loss, claim, damage, or any special, punitive, incidental or consequential damages of any kind (including, but not limited to lost profits or savings), whether based in contract, tort or otherwise, which arises out of or is in any way connected with:
1. ANY USE OF THIS SITE OR CONTENT FOUND HEREIN,
2. ANY FAILURE OR DELAY (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE USE OF OR INABILITY TO USE ANY COMPONENT OF THIS SITE FOR EARNING MILES) OR INTERFERENCE OF USE OR CORRUPTION OF DATA,
3. THE PERFORMANCE OR NON PERFORMANCE BY MilesBar.com OR ANY THIRD PARTY PROVIDER, OR
4. ANY MATTER BEYOND MilesBar.com's (OR ITS LICENSEES OR LICENSORS) REASONABLE CONTROL, EVEN IF SUCH PARTY HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.
By this, you specifically acknowledge that MilesBar.com is not, and shall not be, liable for any slanderous, offensive, infringing or illegal material of any third party, and MilesBar.com reserves the right to remove such materials from the Website without liability.
MilesBar.com offers services and programs internationally. The Website may refer to certain services or programs that are not available worldwide, without specifically limiting the offers as such. Such reference does not imply that MilesBar.com intends to offer such service or programs in all countries or locations.
© 2001 MilesBar™.com All Rights Reserved.
We appreciate your interest in us. Nonetheless, we have laid down a few guidelines to ensure this site and services provided are useful, interesting, and safe at all times. MilesBar.com reserves the right to change these guidelines and disclaimers at any time, and you agree that every visit you make to the website and use our services shall be subject to the most current guidelines.
The Website also contains links to sites that are not maintained by MilesBar.com. We do not hold responsibility for the content of these sites and thus, cannot guarantee that they will not change their content without our knowledge. The inclusion of a link in the Website does not imply MilesBar.com's endorsement of the site.
The services, software, materials and information you find on the website are provided on a "as is" basis, without warranty of any kind, either expressed or implied (including without limitation any warranty for information, services, or products provided through) or in association with the website and any implied warranties of merchantability for a particular purpose, accuracy, completeness, and expectation of privacy or non-infringement.
In no event shall MilesBar.com or any third party provider be liable for any injury, loss, claim, damage, or any special, punitive, incidental or consequential damages of any kind (including, but not limited to lost profits or savings), whether based in contract, tort or otherwise, which arises out of or is in any way connected with:
1. ANY USE OF THIS SITE OR CONTENT FOUND HEREIN,
2. ANY FAILURE OR DELAY (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE USE OF OR INABILITY TO USE ANY COMPONENT OF THIS SITE FOR EARNING MILES) OR INTERFERENCE OF USE OR CORRUPTION OF DATA,
3. THE PERFORMANCE OR NON PERFORMANCE BY MilesBar.com OR ANY THIRD PARTY PROVIDER, OR
4. ANY MATTER BEYOND MilesBar.com's (OR ITS LICENSEES OR LICENSORS) REASONABLE CONTROL, EVEN IF SUCH PARTY HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.
By this, you specifically acknowledge that MilesBar.com is not, and shall not be, liable for any slanderous, offensive, infringing or illegal material of any third party, and MilesBar.com reserves the right to remove such materials from the Website without liability.
MilesBar.com offers services and programs internationally. The Website may refer to certain services or programs that are not available worldwide, without specifically limiting the offers as such. Such reference does not imply that MilesBar.com intends to offer such service or programs in all countries or locations.
© 2001 MilesBar™.com All Rights Reserved.