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-   -   The RYANAIR thread (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ryanair/1725496-ryanair-thread.html)

Palal Apr 1, 2019 8:52 am

FYI - FR no longer has a doccheck for intra-Schengen flights.

DeeGee26.2 Apr 2, 2019 6:32 am

So, I'm looking at the seating for my flight this weekend, FR5041 LBA-BTS. I'm looking to see what's going on with seat reservations.

Quite surprised to see that by far the majority of the pre-reserved seats are in the half of the plane behind the wings. I'm trying to think of a rational reason why this would be.

Now, I'm conscious that if you board at the rear, you can get on and off as quickly as if you board at the front, so it's like free "Quick Exit" seats right at the back, but that doesn't explain why up the middle of the plane, it's mostly reserved behind the wings. Is there a trick I don't know about?

Now, I'm still booked in 1A, currently all on my own, and all the other priority seats behind me are currently unassigned. My reckoning is that there's 1 seat left on the flight (I can't book more than 1 ticket). I'm guessing that the last randomly allocated seats will be at the front of the plane (they'll allocate middle non-premium first and such to give people the chance to upgrade right up until departure). If that final ticket doesn't sell, does that mean seat 1B might be empty? Can I assume that if I swap to 2A, or 16A, the rest of the row will be filled with random allocations?

Is there an opportune time to check in if non-priority and get the plum seats? Or is it totally unpredictable?

Not important, just trying a bit of fun to predict

fartoomanyusers Apr 2, 2019 8:24 am


Originally Posted by DeeGee26.2 (Post 30955904)
My reckoning is that there's 1 seat left on the flight (I can't book more than 1 ticket). I'm guessing that the last randomly allocated seats will be at the front of the plane (they'll allocate middle non-premium first and such to give people the chance to upgrade right up until departure). If that final ticket doesn't sell, does that mean seat 1B might be empty? Can I assume that if I swap to 2A, or 16A, the rest of the row will be filled with random allocations?

Is there an opportune time to check in if non-priority and get the plum seats? Or is it totally unpredictable?

Not important, just trying a bit of fun to predict

i checked in for a FR flight a few days ago 3 hours before departure ... and was given 3C - which i was quite happy with !

cockpitvisit Apr 2, 2019 1:38 pm


Originally Posted by DeeGee26.2 (Post 30955904)
Quite surprised to see that by far the majority of the pre-reserved seats are in the half of the plane behind the wings. I'm trying to think of a rational reason why this would be.

Because these seats are the cheapest ones to reserve. The reservation price differs by the row (not just between "premium" seats at the front and the rest), and those rows are the cheapest ones. Rows behind the wings cost like 4EUR/seat on short routes, with the price slowly increasing when moving towards the rear or towards the front.

So for a couple wanting to sit together, or for someone just wanting an aisle/window seat without wanting the best seat on the plane, these seats are quite a reasonable option.


Is there an opportune time to check in if non-priority and get the plum seats? Or is it totally unpredictable?
Bad seats always go away first, so check in as late as you can to get the best seats. The limiting factor here is the risk that your mobile phone malfunctions at the last moment and you miss the 2-hour check in deadline.

If you get a "random" seat during check in and don't like it, you'll still have an option to select a better seat for a price (which doesn't differ much from the price of advance reservations, although the cheapest seats will all be already occupied).

DeeGee26.2 Apr 3, 2019 4:28 am

Thanks for that, it's kind of what I was thinking.

I also noticed while reading around the subject that the rear of the plane is where you have to buy your one reserved seat if you want your kids to sit next to you, so that would also cause a mass of people to sit at the back.

I know nothing about the physics of aviation. Does this mean that on a flight which is less full, more people have to be allocated random seats towards the front in order to balance the plane, or am I overthinking this?

I'll keep doing what I'm doing and booking 1A for the time being. I like the space, the access to the toilets, and the fact I've only got one person next to me, as well as unfettered access to the catering!

cockpitvisit Apr 3, 2019 9:59 am


Originally Posted by DeeGee26.2 (Post 30959659)
I know nothing about the physics of aviation. Does this mean that on a flight which is less full, more people have to be allocated random seats towards the front in order to balance the plane, or am I overthinking this?

I saw FAs occasionally move people from some rows to the front of the plane for weight and balance reasons. So it appears that weight&balance issues have no influence on the random seat allocation.

DeeGee26.2 Apr 4, 2019 2:47 am

Annoyingly, 1B has now been reserved. I suspect that 1C is probably the least attractive seat on the front row with people walking past, and the flight is now full, so I'm guessing the only seats that won't be occupied will be no-shows.

I've been watching as people without priority now check in and the random seat allocation is currently centre seats from the rear to the front, including the overwing exit rows. Most of the seats in the front rows are still empty, which bodes well for overhead locker space. Guessing that all the overwings are adults, and also guessing that if they turn out to be unsuitable for those seats they'll be swapped with someone else?

If you pay for a seat allocation within the 48 hour check-in window, do you still get priority and 2 cabin bags? Just, obviously, priority is pointless if everyone on the plane gets it, and there's no point sitting at the front if you can't get in the overhead bin. At the minute, if there's no more Priority, bin space will be plentiful.

steve2802 Apr 4, 2019 3:28 am

Baggage allowance
 
Please excuse this noob question. I haven't flown with Ryanair for several years and am unsure of the latest baggage allowances. I understand that as a non priority ticket holder I am entitled to one piece of hand luggage. Does the price include the 10kg hold luggage or is that extra?

fartoomanyusers Apr 4, 2019 3:47 am


Originally Posted by DeeGee26.2 (Post 30963314)
IGuessing that all the overwings are adults, and also guessing that if they turn out to be unsuitable for those seats they'll be swapped with someone else?

in my experience, low cost airlines don't really take too much of an interest in such things !


If you pay for a seat allocation within the 48 hour check-in window, do you still get priority and 2 cabin bags? Just, obviously, priority is pointless if everyone on the plane gets it, and there's no point sitting at the front if you can't get in the overhead bin. At the minute, if there's no more Priority, bin space will be plentiful.
Ryanair allow half the plane to get priority boarding / cabin wheelie - once all those are sold you have to check in your wheely.
So if you pay for a seat you don't get automatically get priority boarding - they are two separate fees.

DeeGee26.2 Apr 4, 2019 4:58 am


Originally Posted by steve2802 (Post 30963391)
Please excuse this noob question. I haven't flown with Ryanair for several years and am unsure of the latest baggage allowances. I understand that as a non priority ticket holder I am entitled to one piece of hand luggage. Does the price include the 10kg hold luggage or is that extra?

Not now, no. It's an underseat sized bag only. 40x20x25. Your 10kg hold bag costs extra.

corporate-wage-slave Apr 5, 2019 7:51 am


Originally Posted by DeeGee26.2 (Post 30963314)
If you pay for a seat allocation within the 48 hour check-in window, do you still get priority and 2 cabin bags? Just, obviously, priority is pointless if everyone on the plane gets it, and there's no point sitting at the front if you can't get in the overhead bin. At the minute, if there's no more Priority, bin space will be plentiful.

They also cap the number of Priority places sold to 90, which can be most passengers on the aircraft sometimes. And anyone can buy a seat anyway. I tend to buy Priority if I need it, but otherwise just the seat selection fee, and I'm happy to be towards the back. The very back rows are charged a little extra due to being first off, but the best value (at least to my mind) is around three quarters of the way down, and with a bit of clever work in the final hours you can often switch seats via the App to get an empty seat next to you.

fartoomanyusers Apr 5, 2019 8:51 am


Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave (Post 30967774)
They also cap the number of Priority places sold to 90, which can be most passengers on the aircraft sometimes.

you're very lucky if you manage to get a half empty Ryanair plane !
i can't remember the last time i got one. usually their revenue management is all too successful !

corporate-wage-slave Apr 5, 2019 12:38 pm


Originally Posted by fartoomanyusers (Post 30968001)
you're very lucky if you manage to get a half empty Ryanair plane !
i can't remember the last time i got one. usually their revenue management is all too successful !

Well, not exactly. 90 Priority passengers and 89 non priority = just 10 empty seats on the B737.

steve2802 Apr 7, 2019 1:50 pm


Originally Posted by DeeGee26.2 (Post 30963532)
Not now, no. It's an underseat sized bag only. 40x20x25. Your 10kg hold bag costs extra.

Thank you for your reply. I've now bought priority boarding that includes a 10kg bag. I've also bought 20kg extra luggage. I have two more questions then that's it, I promise! Can the 10kg bag be put into the hold with the 20kg bag and if so, will there be a cost for doing so.

Agneisse Apr 8, 2019 3:13 am


Originally Posted by steve2802 (Post 30975422)
Thank you for your reply. I've now bought priority boarding that includes a 10kg bag. I've also bought 20kg extra luggage. I have two more questions then that's it, I promise! Can the 10kg bag be put into the hold with the 20kg bag and if so, will there be a cost for doing so.

Ryanair considers these to be different products. So if you try to check in the 10kg bag at the counter, most likely there will be a charge, probably a very high charge as will be a 'on the day' purchase. However if you arrive at the gate very late in the boarding process, then they may grant a gate-check (which will still require you to carry it to the plane and hand it off to a luggage guy on the tarmac).

Basically, interpret everything as written, don't apply any logic (e.g. "it's all going on the same plane anyway") and it will be fine with Ryanair.

pjck Apr 9, 2019 2:31 pm

Ryanair is usually cheaper (I compare it on routes to Alicante and to Krakow), but I think EasyJet is better quality. And you are still allowed to take normal size hand luggage when you fly with EasyJet.

LothianLad Apr 12, 2019 2:55 pm

Question, I made a group booking for 5 passengers. I need to add cabin bags for just one of them (ie the Priority and 2 cabin bag option), however when I try to add this it only allows me to add it for everyone on the booking and not select just one person. How do I get round this? the other 4 passengers have no need to add anything more than the small carry on bag allowed free. Thanks.

cockpitvisit Apr 12, 2019 7:22 pm


Originally Posted by LothianLad (Post 30994022)
I made a group booking for 5 passengers. I need to add cabin bags for just one of them

Try doing it in the app - unlike the website, it seems to allow adding cabin bags+priority to individual flights and individual passengers in your booking.

fartoomanyusers Apr 26, 2019 6:47 am

Wheely fees
 
Previously I’d noticed that at airports where agency staff operated the departure gates, they were much less likely to demand payment for passengers with wheelies in the Non Piority queue.

I'm currently at Luton airport (Swissport staff) - and they are going through the non priority queue and sending those with wheelys to make a payment !

they still don’t seem to worry too much about the size of non wheeled cabin bags - as long as passengers aren’t being completely crazy.

fartoomanyusers Apr 26, 2019 7:17 am

Unsuitable for exit row
 

Originally Posted by DeeGee26.2 (Post 30963314)
Guessing that all the overwings are adults, and also guessing that if they turn out to be unsuitable for those seats they'll be swapped with someone else?

I’m currently in the window seat of an exit row - and I really don’t think the overweight person beside me would manage to get out.

i know it must be really difficult for cabin crew to tell a passenger that they need to move from an exit row - but does FR ever actually do it ?

cockpitvisit Apr 28, 2019 6:59 am

How bad are security lines at STN on a weekday around 19:00?

If the gate closes at 19:05 and I travel by train/bus from Cambridge to arrive at the airport around 18:15, am I stretching it, or would I be OK?

Should I buy priority access for the security screening to be on a safe side?

BruceyBonus Apr 28, 2019 10:21 am


Originally Posted by cockpitvisit (Post 31045167)
How bad are security lines at STN on a weekday around 19:00?

If the gate closes at 19:05 and I travel by train/bus from Cambridge to arrive at the airport around 18:15, am I stretching it, or would I be OK?

Should I buy priority access for the security screening to be on a safe side?

I'd concern myself more about the trains running on time, rather than the airport security!

There's nearly always a queue at Stansted, but it generally moves quite quickly. I haven't waited more than 15 minutes to reach the front of the queue without priority, since the security area was reconfigured about five years ago.

After security, it's a 10 to 15 minute journey to the gate (either by foot to gates 40-59, 81-88 or 90-93, or transit to gates 1-39).

I'm not sure if priority actually saves that much time at STN.

Agneisse Apr 29, 2019 4:25 am


Originally Posted by cockpitvisit (Post 31045167)
How bad are security lines at STN on a weekday around 19:00?

If the gate closes at 19:05 and I travel by train/bus from Cambridge to arrive at the airport around 18:15, am I stretching it, or would I be OK?

Should I buy priority access for the security screening to be on a safe side?

Trains in England are not very punctual...I would not trust that train to actually arrive at 18:15. And buses are of course subject to road delays. However, is 19:05 the 'gate close' time or the departure time? Stansted announces gates very late and of course Ryanair doesn't start processing passengers early enough to make that a hard stop. Also note that the security scanners are very sensitive (e.g. small tube of lotion in a side pocket), so it's not unlikely to get pulled for a re-scan which will easily eat up even more time.

bfwolf May 1, 2019 2:57 pm

East Midlands non connecting flights
 
I’m a USA citizen arriving Saturday at EMA at 12:30 pm from Spain. I’m flying to Poland from EMA same day at 18:10. These are 2 separate tickets. I will have a checked bag.

3 questions:

1) Do I have to go through immigration and customs at EMA and then come back through security after dropping my bag at check in landside?

2) Will I be able to drop my bag off at EMA straight away or is it possible I’ll be too early for bag drop?

3) If I get through immigration quickly, I’d love to catch the second half of the Tottenham match. Is there any place landside, airside, or near the airport to watch?

rcspeirs May 3, 2019 12:02 am

@cockpitvisit My experience of security at STN is not good - I've never got through in less than 20 minutes - and the staff there seem to relish in yelling at passengers and being deliberately unhelpful. I would not be comfortable with the timetable you are proposing.

rcspeirs May 3, 2019 12:06 am

@bfwolf You will need to clear UK immigration and retrieve your luggage. Presuming you do not hold a passport issued in the EU, you also need to go through ryanair document verification process before starting check in for the second flight.

fartoomanyusers May 3, 2019 3:25 am


Originally Posted by bfwolf (Post 31057531)
I’m a USA citizen arriving Saturday at EMA at 12:30 pm from Spain. I’m flying to Poland from EMA same day at 18:10. These are 2 separate tickets. I will have a checked bag.

3 questions:

1) Do I have to go through immigration and customs at EMA and then come back through security after dropping my bag at check in landside?

2) Will I be able to drop my bag off at EMA straight away or is it possible I’ll be too early for bag drop?

3) If I get through immigration quickly, I’d love to catch the second half of the Tottenham match. Is there any place landside, airside, or near the airport to watch?

1) Ryanair don't do connecting flights - so you will definitely have to go landside once you arrive at EMA

2) Ryanair have departures throughout the day from EMA - so I would hope you'd be able to check in straight away

3) You might want to send a tweet to EMA and ask them - would be a shame to go airside too early and miss the match

cockpitvisit May 14, 2019 7:48 am

Warning - Ryanair sells Fast Track Security for Schengen flights ex-FRA, but there is no actual Fast Track there. Reported to them via support chat, they promised to refund the Fast Track fee and to look into it.

ft101 May 14, 2019 8:20 pm


Originally Posted by cockpitvisit (Post 31099868)
Warning - Ryanair sells Fast Track Security for Schengen flights ex-FRA, but there is no actual Fast Track there. Reported to them via support chat, they promised to refund the Fast Track fee and to look into it.

Better tell Blacklane. They're selling them too.

https://pass.blacklane.com/fast-track/fra

And these guys:

https://frankfurtfasttrack.com/

cockpitvisit May 15, 2019 4:11 pm


Originally Posted by ft101 (Post 31102387)
Better tell Blacklane. They're selling them too.

https://pass.blacklane.com/fast-track/fra

And these guys:

https://frankfurtfasttrack.com/

These guys sell full VIP treatment. This is available in FRA (you can also book it directly with the airport).

Ryanair offers just a fast track lane at security for a much more modest amount. And that's not available in FRA Terminal 2 (I got an email confirmation from the airport, since I complained to them first).

ft101 May 15, 2019 8:10 pm


Originally Posted by cockpitvisit (Post 31105446)
These guys sell full VIP treatment. This is available in FRA (you can also book it directly with the airport).

Ryanair offers just a fast track lane at security for a much more modest amount. And that's not available in FRA Terminal 2 (I got an email confirmation from the airport, since I complained to them first).

Got you. Handy to clarify as the first post might deter others from looking any further.

travellingtechie May 26, 2019 6:56 am

10kg hold baggage size restrictions?
 
asking on behalf of my sister, who has arranged a package holiday through thomas cook which unfortunately involves ryanair flights. She was offered 10kg of hold baggage for about 10 quid per person each way, which she accepted. And then bought a lightweight IT brand suitcase as she realised that 10k isn't much!

I looked into this for her and according to the ryanair websites there is also size restriction on this "special offer" - it's basically the cabin bag limits of 55cm x 40cm x 20cm . (source : https://www.ryanair.com/gb/en/useful...nsar_696869348 section 8.3.1 third para)

Another page ( https://www.ryanair.com/gb/en/useful...g-check-in-bag ) doesn't help because it doesn't specify a size limit in the text but the photo does. The photo shows the bigger size for priority boarding yet the text mentions the smaller size for under seat!

My sister contacted thomas cook to query this, and they came back with this reply :


we have spoken to their live chat team which have advised me there is no size restriction on the 10kgs bag, this is because it'll be going in the hold and not underneath the seat in front, as that's what the measurements are for; the 55cm x 40cm x 20cm one.
Now, the size they quote above is for the larger bag with priority boarding, the under seat limits are actually 40cm x 20cm x 25cm , so it seems that even ryanair support personal don't understand the rules!

So my question is, has anyone here done the 10kg checked bag with a bag larger than a cabin bag of 55x40x20, and if so was it accepted without question or charged as if a full size 20k drop?

Cheers
TT

BruceyBonus May 27, 2019 1:35 am


Originally Posted by travellingtechie (Post 31139759)
asking on behalf of my sister, who has arranged a package holiday through thomas cook which unfortunately involves ryanair flights. She was offered 10kg of hold baggage for about 10 quid per person each way, which she accepted. And then bought a lightweight IT brand suitcase as she realised that 10k isn't much!

I looked into this for her and according to the ryanair websites there is also size restriction on this "special offer" - it's basically the cabin bag limits of 55cm x 40cm x 20cm . (source : https://www.ryanair.com/gb/en/useful...nsar_696869348 section 8.3.1 third para)

Another page ( https://www.ryanair.com/gb/en/useful...g-check-in-bag ) doesn't help because it doesn't specify a size limit in the text but the photo does. The photo shows the bigger size for priority boarding yet the text mentions the smaller size for under seat!

My sister contacted thomas cook to query this, and they came back with this reply :



Now, the size they quote above is for the larger bag with priority boarding, the under seat limits are actually 40cm x 20cm x 25cm , so it seems that even ryanair support personal don't understand the rules!

So my question is, has anyone here done the 10kg checked bag with a bag larger than a cabin bag of 55x40x20, and if so was it accepted without question or charged as if a full size 20k drop?

Cheers
TT

I haven't checked in a 10kg bag since November (now do speedy boarding to take it on-board) but I've attached a screenshot of a boarding pass from back then. Key wording is "both must fit into our sizer".
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...6cf3c86028.png

travellingtechie May 27, 2019 1:41 am


Originally Posted by BruceyBonus (Post 31141831)
I haven't checked in a 10kg bag since November (now do speedy boarding to take it on-board) but I've attached a screenshot of a boarding pass from back then. Key wording is "both must fit into our sizer".
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...6cf3c86028.png

Thanks, that's helpful. It does suggest the customer service agent was mistaken. I'll pass it on.

Cheers
TT

BruceyBonus May 27, 2019 1:46 am


Originally Posted by travellingtechie (Post 31141840)
Thanks, that's helpful. It does suggest the customer service agent was mistaken. I'll pass it on.

Cheers
TT

Also, the page you previously quoted (https://www.ryanair.com/gb/en/useful...g-check-in-bag) confirms this.

The photo shows the bag you check-in (55x40x20), whilst the text refers to the second bag which you can take on-board (40x20x25) in addition to the checked in bag.

studio76 May 29, 2019 2:30 pm

Missing the first leg of a roundtrip ticket on Ryanair?

I bought what i assume is a roundtrip ticket (although perhaps ryanair just sells each sector individually?)
I now cannot make the first leg (outbound flight) and will be arriving at the destination via another country on another day
I still need to take the return flight.
i cannot cancel the first sector or change it to after my return.
does ryanair cancel the remainder of a ticket if you miss a sector like most airlines or is it different?

BruceyBonus May 29, 2019 2:34 pm


Originally Posted by studio76 (Post 31150842)
Missing the first leg of a roundtrip ticket on Ryanair?

I bought what i assume is a roundtrip ticket (although perhaps ryanair just sells each sector individually?)
I now cannot make the first leg (outbound flight) and will be arriving at the destination via another country on another day
I still need to take the return flight.
i cannot cancel the first sector or change it to after my return.
does ryanair cancel the remainder of a ticket if you miss a sector like most airlines or is it different?

Ryanair don't cancel the return sector, you can use it without needing to do anything (other than check-in as per usual). See third paragraph at https://www.ryanair.com/gb/en/useful...efunds/refunds.

Despite their negative points, Ryanair do have some great positives: no overbooking and no cancellation of return tickets.

fartoomanyusers May 29, 2019 4:25 pm


Originally Posted by BruceyBonus (Post 31150857)
Ryanair don't cancel the return sector, you can use it without needing to do anything (other than check-in as per usual). See third paragraph at https://www.ryanair.com/gb/en/useful...efunds/refunds.

Despite their negative points, Ryanair do have some great positives: no overbooking and no cancellation of return tickets.

and the same also applies to LaudaMotion flights as well. i checked it with Ryanair - and it worked for my sister recently !

xenole Jun 4, 2019 10:47 am


Originally Posted by travellingtechie (Post 31139759)
asking on behalf of my sister, who has arranged a package holiday through thomas cook which unfortunately involves ryanair flights. She was offered 10kg of hold baggage for about 10 quid per person each way, which she accepted. And then bought a lightweight IT brand suitcase as she realised that 10k isn't much!

I looked into this for her and according to the ryanair websites there is also size restriction on this "special offer" - it's basically the cabin bag limits of 55cm x 40cm x 20cm . (source : https://www.ryanair.com/gb/en/useful...nsar_696869348 section 8.3.1 third para)

Another page ( https://www.ryanair.com/gb/en/useful...g-check-in-bag ) doesn't help because it doesn't specify a size limit in the text but the photo does. The photo shows the bigger size for priority boarding yet the text mentions the smaller size for under seat!

My sister contacted thomas cook to query this, and they came back with this reply :



Now, the size they quote above is for the larger bag with priority boarding, the under seat limits are actually 40cm x 20cm x 25cm , so it seems that even ryanair support personal don't understand the rules!

So my question is, has anyone here done the 10kg checked bag with a bag larger than a cabin bag of 55x40x20, and if so was it accepted without question or charged as if a full size 20k drop?

Cheers
TT

Possibly unofficial, but the 10kg bag you are checking in can be larger than the specified size as long as the weight is 10kg (or 10.9kg max, whatever the bag drop machines accept depending on your overall baggage allowance).
The odd person at MAN brings say 26"-30" cases of 9.9kg and they if they weigh fine on the machines (the machines can't tell how big the bag is anyway so only go by weight), a tag is printed without an issue.
Desk agents should accept these as well.

Bringing an oversized bag to the gate as Priority or non-priority would get you a £50 charge, although a little discretion might apply depending on who is boarding and how big the bag is compared to the gauge

Pretty much, if it's the correct size and has wheels (or is say a solidly packed holdall), it's a CABIN bag that only Priority can bring to the plane. A lot of the really small hard cases with wheels fit in the top sizer but the wheels add 2-3" to the bag, putting it outside of the dimensions of the gauge, therefore making it a CABIN bag which is chargeable)
If it's squashable, most of the time it will be fine as a SMALL bag. i.e handbag, backpack, gym bag sort of thing.

pinniped Jun 6, 2019 8:38 am

Did anyone else see the news stories this morning about a Ryanair flight that diverted to Bordeaux due to an emergency?

The only reason I noticed this one is because I woke up this morning to a bunch of phone alerts about it. The original story said simply "mid-air emergency" and that the aircraft "flew a loop" as it was approaching Bordeaux. Naturally, the idea of a commercial airliner flying a loop had me suddenly wide awake, wondering if the airframe and its passengers all survived it intact. What likely happened is that some journalism intern doesn't know how to interpret a flight tracker website and interpreted the plane's course changes to align to a runway as flying a loop.

All of the online versions of the article that I can find right now simply state that it was a minor medical situation. No mention of extreme aerobatics. :)

Anyone else get these phone alerts? Google knows I follow aviation news...that's why I get them.

On the positive side, I did find all sorts of online articles speculating about whether airliners can fly loops, barrel-rolls, and other aerobatic tricks without structural damage. (General consensus is "no".) A test pilot successfully barrel-rolled a 707, so there's that. :)


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