lsquare

And it's a legitimate concern. The average Russian don't even make as much as a Western European. They could overstay their visas and not leave. It's not like the EU isn't dealing with illegal migration at the moment.

Temedar

This sounds sooooo new..
So the EU has no concern about how much an average Bosnian or Hondurasian citizen make? (for those without access to wiki - it's roughly a third of what an average Russian earns). And I wouldn't even mention Moldova whose citizens also travel visa-free to the Schengen area.

SPBanker

EU might be concerned about the number of people in those countries vs. Russia. Also, visa-free does not mean automatic entry.

rankourabu

I guess if you are there for work - its different than if one just likes to travel

We just spend 3 weeks riding the train from Irkutsk to Moscow in August, making 6 stops along the way. Now that tickets are easily bought online, that part is a breeze.

Had a great time, never had any issues with safety/security. My first trip to Russia was in 2002 - and I must say, since then, Russia seems to have lost that 'wild west' edge evident back then.

Visa was a pain to get, but it made the whole trip very rewarding.

Never found service to be a 'disaster'. Hotels were not overly-expensive.
Food and drink was very good, cheap and plentiful, especially in every place without an English menu.

Yes, the foreign tourist infrastructure is not really developed - but there is certainly progress.


I can see how language can be a major hurdle for people tough. If you are stuck staying at western chain hotels, eating at restaurants aimed at westerners, and dealing with never-ending beaurocracy for work - Russia can seem like an expensive nightmare.

JDiver

A friendly reminder that purely political opinion belongs in OMNI/PR and not in a destination forum. Off topic and dilatory comments will be summarily deleted.

JDiver
Senior Moderator

kpc

Just got back from a 13 night trip to SPB and Moscow, which we did independently without any tour groups or guides bar doing the "Free Tours" in SPB and Moscow, both of which I highly recommend and posted as such on Trip Advisor ....had a great time in both SPB and Moscow. Visited all the usual tourist places during our 13 night trip. Having a smartphone with GPS and google maps came in really handy esp. in Moscow where the signs were only in Cyrillic. Found working out which exit to take from the Moscow subway the hardest as we could not read the signs, and had to take any random exit, and then go from there with the GPS.

Moscow was my favourite of the 2 cities mainly because of the buildings and history but SPB wasn't bad too. We flew into LED (St Petersburg) and out from DME (Moscow), and caught the high speed Sapsan train between the 2 cities (4 hours).

My highlights: Church of the Spilled blood, Catherine's palace (and Amber room), canal cruise, Peterhof in SPB; opera at Bolshoi, Red Square, Kremlin Museum (and Armoury and Diamond Fund), St Basils and GUM at night and Gorky park on a sunny afternoon in Moscow. Found that the younger Moscovites could usually speak a few words of English when we got lost (eg no GPS signal available); the only surly ones were the government bureaucrats selling palace / museum tickets....no we can't sell you the 12 noon tickets for Catheine's palace at 1155am....come back at 12noon!!

We travelled independently with my 75yo mother and felt safe at all times both day and night in both cities. We were told tourists numbers were down 40% in Moscow due to the Ukraine crisis, and there were hardly any American tourists in Moscow.

If you have any doubts about going to SPB and Moscow, don't...GO!! ^Happy to answer any Qs and I'm sure other posters will chip in as well.

WilcoRoger

Strange - IMO SPb beats Moscow as a tourist destination hands down. The key word of course is "in MY opinion"

kpc

I suspect most tourists who have visited both cities would agree with you but for me, Moscow was the more interesting of the 2. I found SPB very "European" as opposed to Moscow, hence my preference

richardinmotion

if you're looking for more of an authentic Russian experience - good and bad - then Moscow is preferable over St Peteresburg. As a Westerner, it can be very difficult to get around and cope with mundane things, however. St Petersburg is much more beautiful than Moscow, and English is to be found everywhere, so getting around, ordering food, buying tickets, etc. is very easy. I've visited Russia many times (with my Russian wife) and would not hesitate to visit St Petersburg on my own, but Moscow is another thing entirely. For me, there are only a few spots in Moscow worth visiting. On the other hand, St Petersburg could literally occupy your time for a month, if you are into arts, museums, etc.

The mood in St Petersburg is much cheerier and cooperative than Moscow. Much!

Swanhunter

Same here. St Petersburg was nice enough but much of the architecture is European and feels like any number of places in Central and Eastern Europe. Moscow on the other hand feels very very different. Not an easy place, but a fascinating one.

Swanhunter

Having spent a couple of weeks hopping down the Trans-Siberian this September (see link in my signature for the TR), my observations would be

* some Russians can't cope with foreigners, mostly for language reasons, and react by shouting and getting angry when you don't understand. Attempts to use a phrasebook to communicate often result in more anger! I have rarely felt less welcome in 125+ countries. Curious as the Russians I know personally through work are delightful people.
* stuff is just not set up for tourists - tourist offices, sightseeing tours, travel passes, reliable taxi drivers rarely exist. Getting around requires a degree of investment and some travel smarts
* the visa process is a headache, even with the shiny new centre in London which beats queuing in the rain
* the size of the country makes dropping in for a week quite limiting in what you can feasible visit
* politics gets in the way too, Putin seems to have infected everyone's brain and when you do find an English speaker their views on Ukraine etc are...interesting...

It is a great destination for the adventurous but by far the hardest of any developed/mostly developed nation. Easier than somewhere like Ethiopia but that isn't saying much.

kpc

Exactly^ I found Moscow one of the hardest cities (mainly due to the language barrier and signs that I could not read or understand) to travel around independently but I guess that was part of the adventure that I liked

Absolutey agree esp. in Moscow cf to SPB!

Just read this...what a sensational trip and adventure!!^^

kamel123

Fully agree to this. Language really gets in the way. St. Petersburg is easier in my experience than Moscow in this respect, but I have repeatedly had the issue that people would speak absolutely no English even in places where they should have at least a basic command (e.g., airports, train stations).

Also, even in St. Petersburg, there is lots of poverty, and not of the "picturesque" kind. We arrived late evening after dark, taxi driver dropped us off at the wrong address, and we were met with a group of drunks walking alongside the building, stumbling, continuing on all fours, hollering at each other. There was probably no acute danger involved, but it wasn't a pleasant welcome either.

On the other hand, Hermitage is completely overrun with tourists. We did expect crowds, and we had booked our tickets beforehand, but it was simply unbearable (worse than Louvre or Uffizi or any other museum I have visited before). Large groups with very loud guides.

I agree St. Petersburg is immensely interesting culturally, and for this reason I would like to return at some point. Same goes for Moscow. But overall, between the cold weather, language issues, drunks on the street, Russia did not feel like the most welcoming place for a tourist.

WilcoRoger

Therefore one could skip the Hermitage and head for the Russian Museum. While the Hermitage is a world class institution, the treasures there are mostly "universal", while the collection at the Russian Museum is, well, Russian art centered. When in Rome, ehm Russia...

I don't find Moscow more intimidating than SPb, probably speaking Russian helps a lot. Very different cities, though - both in architecture and spirit.

You can struck amazing aquintances there - witness the two teenage boys who were peacefully drinking their beers in the Potriarshiye Prudy park (appropriately wearing black cat T-shirts ^) and when strucking a conversation with them they give off a well rounded discussion on the works of Bulgakov, where his museum is situated as opposed to his flat. Only in Russia. ^

rankourabu

Great report! Looks like we stopped in the same places, but trade your Perm for my Kazan+Suzdal.

As to your points:

*absolutely agree. We speak and read a bit of Russian and found it frustrating sometimes when trying to get anything done, and not being able to fully communicate, I can only imagine how hard it is for someone without any Russian. We didnt feel unwelcomed, but 99% of people thought we were Russian. People even asked us for directions

*stuff is very well set up for tourists - those who dont mind spending $200 on a day tour, or those who can communicate in Russian. Not set up at all for foreign visitors, especially independent ones outside of M/STP. Taxi drivers. As an experiment, we asked in English, and then in Russian, price quoted was always at least half then.

I agree, outside of M/STP is for the adventurous, especially for independent travelers - but that makes it very rewarding.

The fact that one can now buy train tickets online makes a HUGE difference.


*The above is from a perspective of an independent tourist. I m sure its a lot different when one comes to Russia for work and/or on a tour.