The Business/First ticket...without lounge access
Aug 8, 2023, 7:31 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2005
Programs: Flying Blue Gold, Air Berlin Gold, Etihad Silver (bad move)
Posts: 420
The Business/First ticket...without lounge access
Hi FT! It has been a while!
This is definitely a first world problem, but I am pretty annoyed at Qatar. We booked tickets to from Dubai to Singapore via Doha. Dubai-Doha in First, the rest in business. No issue using the first class lounge in Dubai, but we were denied entry to the First Lounge in Doha. We were told we'd no access to the business lounge either. Spoke to three levels of staff there, but was told the ticket was a "light fare" and lounge access was not included. The ticket had been bought on a third party website, not Qatar.
We have since checked the email from the original agent, and an email from Qatar that makes no mention of us having paid a light fare. (BTW it was not particularly cheap either).
This is the first time I have come across this for any carrier, and it really falls well short of how I would perceive Qatar as a brand.
When the issue was raised with their customer service on twitter we were told all first tickets had lounge access. We were also given an email to address our concerns to.
You probably won't be surprised that we got nothing but a "bot" response. In fact, checking in for the return flights now, their one intervention seems to have been to print "no lounge" on the boarding cards.
I don't expect to get something for nothing, but this to me seems like very deceptive business practice. Would be annoyed to receive this treatment anywhere, but it really surprises me that Qatar behaves in this way.
Although scanning the other threads here, it probably should not be such a surprise.
This is definitely a first world problem, but I am pretty annoyed at Qatar. We booked tickets to from Dubai to Singapore via Doha. Dubai-Doha in First, the rest in business. No issue using the first class lounge in Dubai, but we were denied entry to the First Lounge in Doha. We were told we'd no access to the business lounge either. Spoke to three levels of staff there, but was told the ticket was a "light fare" and lounge access was not included. The ticket had been bought on a third party website, not Qatar.
We have since checked the email from the original agent, and an email from Qatar that makes no mention of us having paid a light fare. (BTW it was not particularly cheap either).
This is the first time I have come across this for any carrier, and it really falls well short of how I would perceive Qatar as a brand.
When the issue was raised with their customer service on twitter we were told all first tickets had lounge access. We were also given an email to address our concerns to.
You probably won't be surprised that we got nothing but a "bot" response. In fact, checking in for the return flights now, their one intervention seems to have been to print "no lounge" on the boarding cards.
I don't expect to get something for nothing, but this to me seems like very deceptive business practice. Would be annoyed to receive this treatment anywhere, but it really surprises me that Qatar behaves in this way.
Although scanning the other threads here, it probably should not be such a surprise.
Aug 8, 2023, 7:47 pm
#2
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: MEL CHC
Posts: 21,029
When booking via a 3rd party the fine print does not always get through. More so when the fine print is something expected with other airline
QR
-->https://www.qatarairways.com/tradepo...eFamilies.html
QR Business lite. Several threads
-->Business Lite (P) replacing Classic (R) fares?
Blogger
Oct 2021 -->https://www.executivetraveller.com/n......-basic-fare
QR
-->https://www.qatarairways.com/tradepo...eFamilies.html
QR Business lite. Several threads
-->Business Lite (P) replacing Classic (R) fares?
Blogger
Oct 2021 -->https://www.executivetraveller.com/n......-basic-fare
Qatar Airways is offering a new 'unbundled' business class fare without lounge access or advance seat selection, but at a reduced price, as part of an overhaul to its fare structure.
Marketed as Business Class Lite, the fare sits below the Business Class Classic, Comfort and Elite categories.
Like any unbundled fare, it comes with several caveats for the unwary traveller. But if the price is appealing, and especially if your frequent flyer status already provides lounge access, Qatar's Business Class Lite is worth a closer look.
<snip>
Marketed as Business Class Lite, the fare sits below the Business Class Classic, Comfort and Elite categories.
Like any unbundled fare, it comes with several caveats for the unwary traveller. But if the price is appealing, and especially if your frequent flyer status already provides lounge access, Qatar's Business Class Lite is worth a closer look.
<snip>
Aug 8, 2023, 11:11 pm
#3
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 2,155
When you buy a J ticket between the Gulf states and a long haul destination, you are buying a business class ticket and being accommodated in the First cabin on the short haul sectors as a courtesy because there is no business cabin. Effectively it's an op-up. You have a First Class boarding pass but have not bought a First Class ticket for those sectors, and so are subject to the restrictions of your underlying business class fare bucket - in this case P (Lite). This is also the fare bucket on which qpoints and avios will be awarded. QR appear to have applied the eligibility rules correctly here, however frustrating that may be.
A higher J fare bucket, or a full F ticket for the whole journey on routes where that is possible (not available to SIN unfortunately), would have resolved the lounge access issue. Unfortunately many third party agents simply list the lowest possible fare to get their entries higher up in search engine results and aren't always explicit about what may or may not be included. Your beef should really be with the agent for not providing fuller information.
A higher J fare bucket, or a full F ticket for the whole journey on routes where that is possible (not available to SIN unfortunately), would have resolved the lounge access issue. Unfortunately many third party agents simply list the lowest possible fare to get their entries higher up in search engine results and aren't always explicit about what may or may not be included. Your beef should really be with the agent for not providing fuller information.
Aug 8, 2023, 11:12 pm
#4
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: DUB / DOH
Posts: 693
I know it sucks, but if the ticket was booked on the QR website, it states very clearly that it doesn't have lounge access. So it is really on the third party website for not properly communicating this, rather than on QR.
I don't think it is all that unusual for airlines to sell a cheaper business class ticket that does not include some of the perks. This works out for people that just want the onboard seat and service, or for frequent flyers who will get lounge access anyway.
So, in short, take it up with the third party travel agent, this is their problem, not QR's.
I don't think it is all that unusual for airlines to sell a cheaper business class ticket that does not include some of the perks. This works out for people that just want the onboard seat and service, or for frequent flyers who will get lounge access anyway.
So, in short, take it up with the third party travel agent, this is their problem, not QR's.
Aug 9, 2023, 4:47 am
#6
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2005
Programs: Flying Blue Gold, Air Berlin Gold, Etihad Silver (bad move)
Posts: 420
When you buy a J ticket between the Gulf states and a long haul destination, you are buying a business class ticket and being accommodated in the First cabin on the short haul sectors as a courtesy because there is no business cabin. Effectively it's an op-up. You have a First Class boarding pass but have not bought a First Class ticket for those sectors, and so are subject to the restrictions of your underlying business class fare bucket - in this case P (Lite). This is also the fare bucket on which qpoints and avios will be awarded. QR appear to have applied the eligibility rules correctly here, however frustrating that may be.
A higher J fare bucket, or a full F ticket for the whole journey on routes where that is possible (not available to SIN unfortunately), would have resolved the lounge access issue. Unfortunately many third party agents simply list the lowest possible fare to get their entries higher up in search engine results and aren't always explicit about what may or may not be included. Your beef should really be with the agent for not providing fuller information.
A higher J fare bucket, or a full F ticket for the whole journey on routes where that is possible (not available to SIN unfortunately), would have resolved the lounge access issue. Unfortunately many third party agents simply list the lowest possible fare to get their entries higher up in search engine results and aren't always explicit about what may or may not be included. Your beef should really be with the agent for not providing fuller information.
For clarity, we were entitled to neither the First nor the Business lounge. We have accessed the silver lounge as I have now made that status with the airline. (Rather redundantly).
Again, multiple points of contention on this:
Lack of access
Social media QR saying we had access
Bot responses.
Aug 9, 2023, 5:46 am
#9
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 2,155
For clarity, we were entitled to neither the First nor the Business lounge. We have accessed the silver lounge as I have now made that status with the airline. (Rather redundantly).
Again, multiple points of contention on this:
Lack of access
Social media QR saying we had access
Bot responses.
Again, multiple points of contention on this:
Lack of access
Social media QR saying we had access
Bot responses.
If you had told the twitter team that you had a first class ticket then it's probable they would have responded by telling you about the first class privileges. I tried to outline previously though why you didn't actually have a first class ticket and so those privileges did not apply. Yes it's frustrating but these P class fares have been around for a while now.
No doubt as far as QR are concerned, your ticket wasn't eligible so the matter is closed now after what sounds like a few interactions. They haven't really done anything wrong there, and your contract was with the travel agent. But as others have suggested, they are unlikely to be bothered about entering into a lengthy conversation about this now either.
Unfortunately it's probably just something to chalk up to experience - either buying direct in the future and/or really carefully checking and cross referencing fare codes to be sure of what is included before paying.
QR delivered the ticket you bought. It's unfortunate in your case that the ticket wasn't what you thought you had bought, but again that comes back to insufficient information given by your travel agent and your argument is with them really.
Aug 9, 2023, 1:06 pm
#10
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: NYC/DC
Programs: AA,SPG, Delta, Amtrak, JB
Posts: 875
This reminds me of BA charging you thousands for a J ticket and still demands that you pay for seat selection. I for one wouldn't be doing it...
I guess if you can do it and people are still willing to pay - good for the airline.
Aug 9, 2023, 1:27 pm
#11
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 2,155
Most people now buy travel online, so it's to get their fares towards the top of the search engine and screenscraper sites. Same as stripping out check-in baggage. Or flexibility. Or catering. Etc.
So it's very logical if you look at it that way. They need to appear in the right search results position relative to the perceived equivalent competition. Business class is just catching up with economy.
The internet and low cost airlines have a lot to answer for...
So it's very logical if you look at it that way. They need to appear in the right search results position relative to the perceived equivalent competition. Business class is just catching up with economy.
The internet and low cost airlines have a lot to answer for...
Aug 9, 2023, 1:50 pm
#12
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: NYC/DC
Programs: AA,SPG, Delta, Amtrak, JB
Posts: 875
Most people now buy travel online, so it's to get their fares towards the top of the search engine and screenscraper sites. Same as stripping out check-in baggage. Or flexibility. Or catering. Etc.
So it's very logical if you look at it that way. They need to appear in the right search results position relative to the perceived equivalent competition. Business class is just catching up with economy.
The internet and low cost airlines have a lot to answer for...
So it's very logical if you look at it that way. They need to appear in the right search results position relative to the perceived equivalent competition. Business class is just catching up with economy.
The internet and low cost airlines have a lot to answer for...
When the lite business class product is priced at $8,000 and its non-lite counterpart is at $10,000, it becomes disheartening to realize that even after investing $8,000 for a flight, supplementary charges are levied for lounge access. This practice strikes me as exceedingly unreasonable. It is reminiscent to me of the perplexing differentiation between basic economy and standard economy fares, where the disparity between the two can often be as trivial as a mere $15.
If I hadn't read this thread I would not have been aware that there was such a product on the market. So thanks. Hmmmm, I wonder what will they think of next.. Perhaps as part of the business lite product they serve an economy meal...
Aug 9, 2023, 2:19 pm
#13
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: LON
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 3,918
Thankfully this is not usually a fair criticism of Qatar, but there are others out there that need to sort their catering out
Aug 9, 2023, 2:24 pm
#14
Join Date: May 2023
Posts: 100
Business Lite also does not have the flexibility of Classic or Comfort fares. I honestly do not buy Lite because of this very reason. I would be keen on saving some money and not have lounge access (I can use the status longe and my connections are 2-3h) but the compromise on flexibility I am not accepting, so for me only Classic fares.
Tbh what I found most annoying (and little cost explanation behind it) is the seat selection for a fee (even for Classic fare). That one books a J ticket and needs to pay extra to reserve a seat is a bit too much of a low-cost approach.
Tbh what I found most annoying (and little cost explanation behind it) is the seat selection for a fee (even for Classic fare). That one books a J ticket and needs to pay extra to reserve a seat is a bit too much of a low-cost approach.
Last edited by gsberlin; Aug 9, 2023 at 3:10 pm