NickRivas

Al Baker argues that first class doesn’t justify the returns, since Qatar Airways’ business class offers many of the same perks as first class on other airlines. Al Baker instead wants to focus on continuing to offer a world class business class. As he explains:
“Why should you invest in a subclass of an aeroplane that already gives you all the amenities that first class gives you. I don’t see the necessity.”

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Bummer, I was hoping to see a new First Class suite in the future to compete with EK and other airlines. Although business class on QR is amazing, I feel like the soft product can be much better in F…
OMAAT

SuperEWR

No surprises here, Al Baker has consistently talked up Q Suites and there's not a single other airline that is actively expanding their F footprint (either in number of seats in the cabin or percentage of the long-haul fleet that has F), everyone else is pulling it back or cutting it out entirely. There's not enough customers, between corporate and (ultra)-premium leisure, who are willing and able to pay for F to justify an F cabin anymore outside of a select handful of routes

florin

I think that F is going the way of the dodo bird. Many airlines have ditched it already.

Before: F, J and Y. Now: J, Y+, Y. Older F is comparable to newer J; it's the Y+ that I have an issue with because it is marginally better than Y but far more expensive. The demand seems to be there, so the airlines have done well, but as a pax I personally find the value to be terrible. But I digress...

Add the complexities of sustaining F on <some> routes, on only some aircraft... logistically it must be quite the challenge.

There is still high demand for premium holidays, but IMO this isn't going to last forever.

roadwarriorafrica

What do we do with QCredits now? I used them if I could upgrading to F on the A380

NickRivas

I wonder what would happen to Al Safwa once the A380s and whatever leased F cabin planes are no longer part of the fleet.
It would basically only leave it to the highest status QR passengers or those traveling in “first” around the Middle East (but in J hard product and soft too since those routes are so short they don’t serve much).
perhaps they’d even be better off turning it into another business lounge in the future

AAtticus

Similar to how BA's F lounge isn't really used by F-flying passengers but OWE's. ( F flyers would use the CCR)

NickRivas

thing is that Al Safwa is basically what Concorde is to BA…there are regular status lounges at Hamad for OWE passengers who aren’t flying QR F or are their top tier
Parallel question would be what would BA do with the CCR if they got rid of their F product

wutlol

I can see them adding F-style perks (Al Safwa, layover hotel, luxury car transits, etc) as a way to upsell J customers without requiring a differentiated hard product.

To be honest, despite how this reeks of MBA style thought, it makes a lot of sense in terms of operational flexibility.

SkyLich

Business class has been encroaching on First for quite some time.

First however, can't offer enough to differentiate itself significantly enough to justify the fares.

Howard Long

As already mentioned, Al Baker has been saying this for some time, perhaps 10 years.

While I was sceptical back then, to be fair both their hard and soft products in general aren't a million miles off some legacy carriers' F: the crew : pax ratio isn't far off a 14F BA flight, and most seats now offer direct aisle access. It wasn't that long ago when you could still find yourself on board an Emirates flight in longhaul F in a 2:2:2 configuration, and sooner or later that will be a thing of the past on longhaul QR J too.

Where QR J lets itself down is the drastically compared to F is the substantially reduced food service on late night departures: this makes no sense to me as the vast majority of QR pax are longhaul transit passengers on dramatically disparate timezones.

Schwann

Give it a few years and he'll be saying QR will have the most tremendous most luxurious F class in the world.

AAtticus

Oh..I thought BA got rid of their F product a long time ago

KingCanute

This is quite possible of course. Not having a world leading F product currently, some might be inclined to big up the "first in" J product for both face, and to passively belittle competitors F offerings (also for face but as well to try to persuade some of their passengers to switch)

Now whether that presentation might change if they do end up installing F on the 77X we shall have to wait and see. Those who buy F on the most lucrative QR routes (particularly locals) may have some influence on what actually transpires. If they didn't have opinions that are listened to, routes like LHR might be easier to upgrade or redeem into now

N1Rotate

The cost of developing long haul First class seats has increased over the years as certification requirements get more complex, its only worthwhile if you can spread it over a relatively large number of planes (like EK and LH) or have consistent demand for O&D fare paying pax like QF. I think QR though needs to look beyond the business case of First Class on a stand alone product and consider the halo effect, like the Etihad F Apartment/Residence, on the overall brand as well as the value to its FFP.

If they dropped the idea of First class on a handful of 777X as was mentioned to the press before, perhaps having a row of more spacious business class seats with more amenities and no foot cubby like some other airlines are doing could serve the same purpose at a lower cost and it could be something they could have on a much larger number of aircraft. Would be a good sink for Avios/Qcredits and add value to the FFP program especially for those who book business class anyways.

Tom84

Talking about QR First.

Just booked a Avios reward flight DUB-DOH in Business then DOH-BKK in First flying in October. The segment in First to BKK wasn't available to purchase on the Qatar site only Economy or Business, only only when i clicked through the Avios button did First pop up as an option. Not complaining as its the the same Avios (75,000) as Business in both segments!

What are your thoughts on this? Is it Qatar thinking that the equipment might change from the A380 with all the A350's coming back and its easier to downgrade a reward booking than a cash one or just a weird quirk with the booking system?