MrsDrD

Just found out the hard way while on the phone to QF res, that once AO starts operations, QF flights to some Asian destinations are going to be heavily reduced in number.

After 22 Nov when AO starts HKG-CNS, HKG-BNE flight QF86 will be reduced from 5 to 2 services per week (admittedly 3 of the old 5 were via CNS). Same goes for QF85 BNE-HKG.

Maybe I missed something here or in press releases, but I thought AO was supposedly growing the Asian leisure business, not cannibilising QF presence on these routes.

HKG-BNE is a well-worn track for us, and transitting via SYD is just a shame on this route - takes a nice sub-9 hour flight and turns it into a 12 hour hassle.

Speaking personally, we want to fly a QF 2 class product with lounge access and point accumulation. Slashing QF timetables and substituting AO is just not acceptable. As far as I can tell, CX just picked up a heap of business on this route...

whughes has already posted that QF is dropping its SYD-TPE service altogether, which would seem to be a related phenomenon.

Anyone noticed anything else similar? Has anyone looked at what has happened to QF frequencies on routes to Osaka, Fukuoka and Nagoya? I'm betting they have quietly been reduced in number too.

PS. Doesn't help that in the new online timetabling function, I can't seem to pull up that nice weekly schedule for particular flights anymore. Has anyone found a way to it?

MrsDrD

Update: After more trawling on the QF website, in complete contradiction to what QF reservations just told me, I'm finding 4 flights per week QF85/86.

Phone reservations was adamant that it was being dropped to 2 days per week, thus couldn't find me availability on QF but were suggesting that they could see availability on AO.

Does anyone have any information about this? Is the frequency to be reduced, and online timetabling just han't cuaght up?

davistev

Oh No! I have a pile of Swiss Qualiflyer miles that I would like to redeem on the Nagoya - Cairns QF route. Australian Airlines will be flying daily our of Nagoya.

Does this mean QF will be pulling out of the Nagoya market? There is no way I'll be flying Australian Airlines in Economy overnight. Looks like Malaysian Airlines for me if this occurs.

[This message has been edited by davistev (edited 09-16-2002).]

davistev

I just did a timetable search on the QF site and sure enough - no more QF service to Nagoya. This is a major restructing of the Japanese market for Qantas. I am afraid there must not have been a big enough Business Class market for QF to have dropped this route. Looks like I will need to fly Malaysian (KLM RoyalWing) or Singapore Airlines (AC Aeroplan).

A sad loss for this city. We lost KLM last year and Delta Airlines because of the Portland incidents. We are left with NWA to DTW and MNL, AC to Vancouver, and Varig to Los Angeles.

Hang on - I just remembered - I could always fly to Cairns on a 737 via Guam on CO.



[This message has been edited by davistev (edited 09-16-2002).]

MrsDrD

davistev, sorry to hear that you are likewise affected by this cut in service.

Out of curiousity I just searched CNS-Osaka as well: sure enough, in November the QF service is being completely dropped between that city pairing, replaced by AO.

As far as HKG-BNE goes: I tried the old, "phone again and hope for another answer" routine. Again, I was told that HKG-BNE pairing only operates twice a week from November. I asked if there was any reason why the online timetable would not be showing this change, but of course I suspected phone reservations wouldn't be able to comment on that, and there was no good answer. Fair enough, not their area. Thus have sent an e-mail to the Qantas site to ask for an explanation for the discrepancy...

I don't know which is more frustrating just now, the fact that the flights have been cut or the fact that the online timetabling is wrong so goodness only knows what else is going on....actually, the cut flights are worse, at least the timetabling might be fixed in the near future, but I know that however much I don't like it they've just more than halved flight options on my most travelled route

christep

Well yes, but CX is now up to three directs and two via CNS each week so you have the opportunity to fly on a much better airline anyway

Globaliser

For an all-carrier weekly search, I usually use the BA site - try http://www.britishairways.com/flightTimetable.servlet or else follow the "Timetables and Routes" link on the home page. It's prioritised for BA, as you'd expect, but if you choose the "All Carriers" option you should get just about every published connection you could think of, and more.

The only current problem is that since BA took the plunge into Amadeus it's had to warn about data inaccuracies. I hope that Amadeus are made to pay up big time for all the grief that they've caused us BA customers.

A quick look for the week including 16 November suggests that there's 4 HKG-BNE flights. One non-stop, three one-stops via CNS.

Hope all this helps.

[This message has been edited by Globaliser (edited 09-16-2002).]

MrsDrD

Globaliser, thanks for reminding me about BA's timetable for all carriers. I've used it to confirm what QF res is telling me: after 22 November (when AO starts CNS-HKG) Qantas will drop to 2 services per week.

christep, yes, CX will be the more obvious choice now, especially as they have increased from 4 to 5 total services.

I enjoy flying CX so that's fine But as a Qantas FF member, unfortunately I don't get bonus points for status when flying CX, and also points redemption rates are higher on CX through Qantas FF. Just makes it that little bit harder all ways....

Guess I should still count myself lucky - looks like those who enjoyed travelling from Japan direct to Brisbane on QF have been hit a lot harder.

christep

MrsDrD,

I hadn't dug into the QF FF scheme enough obviously. To me it seems that you would be better off on the AAdvantage scheme - do a platinum challenge next time you fly to HKG and you will get AA Plat = OW Sapphire after one round trip. You get status and cabin bonuses on all OW airlines (with exceptions for cheap economy, but not much different from QF's). You would also get earned upgrades which could be converted back into miles so that as a OW Sapphire you would effectively be earning 3 miles per mile in eligible economy.

The only catch is that to retain status after the first year you would have to fly 4 segments on AA metal.

[This message has been edited by christep (edited 09-16-2002).]

Globaliser

I should have read your original post more carefully for dates, shouldn't I? Glad you found it, though.

[This message has been edited by Globaliser (edited 09-17-2002).]

CP7

davistev - sorry to advise that AC is also pulling out of Nagoya (again!) Oct 26.

QantasAllTheWay

the main problem i see in this is not AO taking over QF flights - i'd happily travel AO on these routes if i had to - the problem is that you cant earn QFF points on AO. That is a major disincentive!! QF have to seriously rethink this policy.

thadocta

For a better site, try ITN - http://www.itn.net/ - if you register first, and then set your user level to "expert" you get the full class display when checking availability - i.e. P9 J9 D2 Y9 K9 L0 (and so on).

Dave

thadocta

Can't see it being much of a problem initially, when the only flights are ex-CNS. But it will cause a problem later on down the track when they add other ports to the network - who is going to fly SYD-TPE on AO and not get any points? Makes much more sense to fly CX through HKG.

QF say that AO and QF will not compete, so there will not be any dilution of QF revenue, but this is patently false, since traffic which is currently QF but which will be handed over to AO will just switch to other carriers.

Dave

davistev

CP7 - say it isn't so! Now Air Canada is leaving the Nagoya market!!! Comm'n people - buy some Toyotas.


[This message has been edited by davistev (edited 09-18-2002).]

[This message has been edited by davistev (edited 09-18-2002).]