Antiqantas

I thought I agreed with the main point you were making (that racism in Qantas was probably no worse than in most Australian public companies). If that wasn't your main point, please restate it more clearly.

What the heck are you talking about? What do you think my motives are? Isn't it obvious from everything I've written that I care about the image our national airline projects to our overseas visitors? What's your problem? Maybe I should be questioning your motives. Why is it that critical comments about Qantas are met with such a defensive response? Why are you and your ilk so sensitive about Qantas? I think we're entitled to an explanation for your sensitivity.

(edited)

willyroo

[2nd mod hat this thread]

If you haven't anything to add to this thread, please don't post. Calling someone a troll - even indirectly - doesn't contribute.

Search for "Ignore" in the Rules and Guidelines...

[/mod hat]

Antiqantas

Oh, I forgot to mention ... feel free to distort what I've said, according to your fertile imagination or wishful thinking, and then respond to that distortion. It sure beats arguing the point.

simongr

I think people are defensive as for some reason your opinion of how the airline is represented is stated as fact rather than opinion. Or the responses do not agree with how the airline should be judged by other people - some of your assessments of the quality of the airline are based on what you have seen the ground staff do - it is fully your right to judge an airline on that - in the same way that other people may not think it is relavant at all.

How I see airline staff deal with other people is none of my concern - I do not know all the facts of the situation and thus can not provide an assessment of that. I would have to say that if an airline staffer asked me to help them get someone else's bags (as you suggested that they should) I would refer them to the rest of the ground staff.

Your question is "How should an airline be judged?" - I dont think we (being this forum) will ever come to an agreement on precisely how an airline should be judged - for as many complementary bases there will 10 times as many contradictory bases for assessment. My personal view on QF is that the staff can be great or awful, the aircraft great or awful, the lounges great or awful and thus for a consistent product I often choose other carriers.

I would say as well that condescending remarks about people's understanding of airline operations, FF program operations and the like do not lend credibility to your arguments.

I am though a little surprised that you have remained loyal to the QFF program even though you imply that you do not fly greatly with them. Most people would be aware of the benefits of other programs (AAdvantage springs to mind) and the only thing going for QF for some people is the benefits you get from being top tier with QF when flying with them.

whughes3

The following thread makes interesting reading in light of the above...

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=500593

alect

I don't know - if you see/hear someone being rude and unprofessional in a customer service role it's wrong no matter what the circumstances. Even where there is a rude and aggressive customer, there are professional ways to deal with that.

Here's the problem - as many have posted here QF staff (like many other airlines' staff) are just a cross section of the population - and the population is full of great people and also full of a**holes. So if that's the measure, QF are fine. But when most of us are paying for a service or goods, we expect customer service to be more than just what we come across in the world generally. If all QF had to do was grab people off the street and put them in customer facing positions, then all is fine. But management of a good company realize that their customer facing personnel have a huge affect on their customers and their loyalty - hence invest on those personnel.

There are many airlines who will deserve the very same criticisms the OP is making. There are very few who really do have impeccable staff.

Antiqantas

For heaven's sake, that was a tongue-in-cheek comment which I only made in response to an utterly ridiculous inference about my level of patronage of Qantas that hadn't the slightest relevance to the thrust of this thread. I'm sure the person it was addressed to knows a whole lot more about the FF program than I do.

Kiwi Flyer

Please don't try to put words into my mouth.

To make myself clearer. I agree with others that to some extent any airline has these kind of issues. For you to make a point of discussing Qantas specifically, I assume that you think Qantas is worse than other airlines. Indeed your comments in this and other previous threads confirms this.

So, back to my question. If Qantas is such a bad airline to deal with, over an extended period of some 30/35+/37+ years, why do you persist with them? Most people would have given up long ago. What good is this discussion when you have apparently been sending Qantas complaints on this topic for years?

It appears to me that you have some personal issue, despite your protestations otherwise. If it really is a personal issue, then I don't think discussing it publicly is wise.

GoldFlyer

Antiqantas,

A number of people of Asian background have responded to your post; none of them seem to agree with you.

I believe you have a personal issue against Qantas as Kiwi Flyer suggested and I also endorse his recommendation that you keep it to yourself or find a less public way to vent your agenda.

Antiqantas

OK, since you've tried to make yourself clearer, I'll try to do the same and summarize what I've been saying:

1. An important criterion for judging an airline is the way its people behave, not just the facilities the airline provides. (This holds true of every corporation, of course.)
2. For a country's flagship airline, this criterion is more critical because of the fact that the airline represents the first and/or last impression of the country for many of its overseas visitors.
3. Having worked and travelled extensively around Asia the last 10 years or so, I've formed an enormous number of business and personal relationships with Asian colleagues and friends (as I'm sure many of you have). In my own way I've done my best to be a good ambassador for my country and to understand and be sensitive to the cultures of the peoples in Asia. Naturally, I hope and expect that when they visit Australia they will be treated as honored guests on their arrival and departure, and during their trip.
4. When that doesn't happen, I believe it's grounds for significant concern (and a valid subject for discussion). The fact is, I've seen all too many instances of insulting and condescending treatment of Asian passengers by Qantas cabin and ground staff. You [generically] can deny this, you can claim you've never seen such behavior yourself, but it doesn't alter the truth of what I'm saying.
5. In less serious cases, such as the "You need to ask Qantas" guy, the lack of professionalism is almost amusing to the point of being Monty Python material. Whether it annoys me or not, though, it's still unacceptable behavior for our international airline.
6. Yes, I've previously compared some aspects of Qantas to other airlines in various forums but in this case, please understand that my comments have absolutely nothing to do with other airlines. I'm not making any comparisons here. I'm simply writing as an Australian who feels strongly about how our overseas visitors are treated by our national airline. For all I know, there could be airlines that are more racist than Qantas, and there probably are, but that's completely irrelevant to the point I'm making and the position from which I'm writing.
7. I have not been "sending Qantas complaints on these topics for years".
8. Finally, once again, how does asking me why/whether I continue to travel on Qantas address the problem? How is it even relevant to the problem? And how would me deciding never to patronize Qantas address the problem? I claim there is a problem to be fixed, a problem that relates to our national airline's image with and treatment of overseas visitors. Why of all the subjects that get discussed about Qantas on this forum does this particular one stir up such sensitivities? Are we supposed to live in a state of denial and just not mention it?

Why do you say this? What kind of "personal issue" are you thinking of? I'm just raising what I consider to be a serious issue that I don't think gets enough coverage among all the discussions on seats, aircraft, menus, schedules, awards, etc. I really don't understand what's behind your comment.

og

IF Qantas are accused of hate towards some people, Iberia are worse. They seem to hate everyone!

Keith009

Hmm..........

Antiqantas

Yes, I've raised some issues with Qantas over the years, but unrelated to the current topic of discussion.

bensyd

GF

While I do think QF are not as bad as the OP is making out I have certainly seen some pretty poor behaviour by QF cabin crew toward Asian's. Having said that, I have seen CX crew be extremely rude to other Chinese (I think mainlanders) so this is certainly not something that is QF specific, and once on a flight from SJO to LAX which stopped in GUA on UA I saw the rudest cabin crew I have ever seen, the manner in which they were treating many of the pax who got on in GUA and had obviously never flown before was disgusting, it was the only time I have ever written a letter of complaint to an airline.

While its not to be condoned I think that singling out QF is abit unfair.

Traveloguy

Seems the points you raise are identical to the ones you raised before as pointed out by whughes3 in the thread entitled "Comprehension Exercise".

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=500593

Do we really need to cover this ground again?

Personally I believe that should you want to discuss corporate racism or racism in general, you might find a better audience in OMNI:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=457