Dealing with the situation of an obese passenger on QF
Dec 16, 2017, 11:09 pm
#17
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Sydney
Programs: QFF WP/OWE
Posts: 368
This might sound unkind/discriminatory/politically incorrect, but there has to come a point whereby airlines have to refuse the severely morbidly obese as passengers. It becomes about the safety of the obese passenger themself and of other passengers. From watching certain reality TV programmes, I see that people are only getting fatter and fatter, while seats are getting smaller and smaller, and there's no room to increase aisle width. (Rhetorical) If, as in your case, the passenger requires assistance walking, what happens in an emergency?
Surely a line has to be drawn somewhere, preferably along where it's for the greater good, not because "rights".
And I do think QF should have a real policy in place. One that starts at the check-in desk. This tiptoeing about does no one any favours.
Surely a line has to be drawn somewhere, preferably along where it's for the greater good, not because "rights".
And I do think QF should have a real policy in place. One that starts at the check-in desk. This tiptoeing about does no one any favours.
Unfortunately there's very little that the airline can do about it. What sort of policy should they have in place that wouldn't be derided as discriminatory?
Dec 16, 2017, 11:17 pm
#18
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Airlines could mitigate the impact the same way some airlines do in the USA... the passenger buys two seats, but if there is a spare seat on the plane the second seat is refunded.
Dec 17, 2017, 12:20 pm
#19
Join Date: Jul 2007
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I had a similar situation in the USA a couple of months ago. I appealed to the FA who cited there was nothing they could do on the grounds of the discrimination laws. We were sitting at a window exit row with fixed armrests, so the 'armrest-down' rule didn't apply. I appealed on safety grounds (reduced mobility) but under US law the only action the airline can take is to ask the (obese) passenger if they satisfy the exit row requirements and if they say 'yes', the airline can't question that.
FAR Part 121 Sec. 121.585 effective as of 02/26/1996 has the relevant legislation. As far as "discrimination laws" applying, the standard Americans with Disabilities Act does NOT apply for airline travel. There is a similar Air Carrier Access Act specifically for air travel, however it specifically states that FAA regulations around safety/exit rows overrides the normal provisions of the act. ie, it is completely legal to deny access to an exit row for someone with a "disability" for reasons covered by the FAA.
Last edited by docbert; Dec 17, 2017 at 12:26 pm
Dec 17, 2017, 12:43 pm
#20
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This is not correct. The airline has absolute and final say (and full responsibility) over the decision of who can sit in an exit row.
FAR Part 121 Sec. 121.585 effective as of 02/26/1996 has the relevant legislation. As far as "discrimination laws" applying, the standard Americans with Disabilities Act does NOT apply for airline travel. There is a similar Air Carrier Access Act specifically for air travel, however it specifically states that FAA regulations around safety/exit rows overrides the normal provisions of the act. ie, it is completely legal to deny access to an exit row for someone with a "disability" for reasons covered by the FAA.
FAR Part 121 Sec. 121.585 effective as of 02/26/1996 has the relevant legislation. As far as "discrimination laws" applying, the standard Americans with Disabilities Act does NOT apply for airline travel. There is a similar Air Carrier Access Act specifically for air travel, however it specifically states that FAA regulations around safety/exit rows overrides the normal provisions of the act. ie, it is completely legal to deny access to an exit row for someone with a "disability" for reasons covered by the FAA.
This passenger was able to walk down the aisle unassisted. They had reasonable mobility and (probably) had the ability to lift the exit and do all the other things listed.
The impact was on me not being able to adopt the brace position or to sit without leaning into the aisle.
Dec 17, 2017, 2:25 pm
#21
Join Date: Jul 2007
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The other condition some (but not all) airlines enforce for exit rows is that no passengers may use a seat belt extender.
The official line behind this one is that it creates a trip hazard as people exit the plane, but it also obviously works as a limit for excessively large people from sitting in that row.
The official line behind this one is that it creates a trip hazard as people exit the plane, but it also obviously works as a limit for excessively large people from sitting in that row.
Dec 17, 2017, 3:09 pm
#22
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They did, although some years ago. I am not sure if they do it nowadays. To my surprise it wasn't even a QF voucher, but an AUD 100 David Jones voucher from memory.
It was a very similar circumstance to yours, although it was a little worse and a little more complicated.
It was a Dash 8. I was in the aisle seat but I felt compelled to swap seat with the passenger when she asked me if I'd swap for her window seat because she'd have difficulties getting into the window seat, so I did.
Armrest between two seats couldn't be put down - although the armrest on my side ( by the window) didn't move so I was crushed against it as I had less than 1/2 of a seat and I'm small but not that small.
Even though I realised, as soon as the passenger next to me and I were seated, that the armrest by the window was a tad painful as it was digging into me, I didn't want to hurt her feelings so I just kept quiet and put up with it. By the time it landed, I had a bit of a bruise on my side, although it wasn't that bad. Thank goodness it wasn't a long flight.
I wrote to QF to say that the situation should have been prevented at the gate as it was quite obvious what was to happen, and if it weren't for the fact that I am small, it's likely that the passenger would not have had sufficient space to actually sit and one of us had to be offloaded from the full flight (which it was). I stated that it was really hard to speak up without embarrassing the passenger once on board, so I kept my mouth shut as I have no desire to hurt someone's feelings or embarrass them, but it makes the point that it is even more important to deal with this kind of situation before boarding for everyone's sake.
I received an apology and a voucher from QF about a week later.
It might have made some difference that I was a high status credit WP though (I think I may have been a Partner Gold-issuing WP then - before P1 was introduced to the programme).
It was a very similar circumstance to yours, although it was a little worse and a little more complicated.
It was a Dash 8. I was in the aisle seat but I felt compelled to swap seat with the passenger when she asked me if I'd swap for her window seat because she'd have difficulties getting into the window seat, so I did.
Armrest between two seats couldn't be put down - although the armrest on my side ( by the window) didn't move so I was crushed against it as I had less than 1/2 of a seat and I'm small but not that small.
Even though I realised, as soon as the passenger next to me and I were seated, that the armrest by the window was a tad painful as it was digging into me, I didn't want to hurt her feelings so I just kept quiet and put up with it. By the time it landed, I had a bit of a bruise on my side, although it wasn't that bad. Thank goodness it wasn't a long flight.
I wrote to QF to say that the situation should have been prevented at the gate as it was quite obvious what was to happen, and if it weren't for the fact that I am small, it's likely that the passenger would not have had sufficient space to actually sit and one of us had to be offloaded from the full flight (which it was). I stated that it was really hard to speak up without embarrassing the passenger once on board, so I kept my mouth shut as I have no desire to hurt someone's feelings or embarrass them, but it makes the point that it is even more important to deal with this kind of situation before boarding for everyone's sake.
I received an apology and a voucher from QF about a week later.
It might have made some difference that I was a high status credit WP though (I think I may have been a Partner Gold-issuing WP then - before P1 was introduced to the programme).
Dec 17, 2017, 10:09 pm
#23
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 969
Exit row seat requirements and conditions
In order to sit in an exit row seat, you must:
- be at least fifteen years old
- not be travelling with someone who needs your assistance in an emergency e.g. an infant or child unless there is another guardian seated elsewhere with the child
- not require the use of an infant/extension seat belt
- be willing and able to move quickly and assist crew in an emergency situation
- be willing and able to listen to a briefing, check outside conditions and follow instructions given in English by crew
- be physically able to reach, open, lift and throw out an emergency exit up to twenty (20) kgs
- not be travelling with a service dog
- not have an amputated or prosthetic limb
- not have a visual impairment that is not corrected by use of spectacles/glasses/contact lenses, which must be worn during taxi, take-off and landing
- not have a hearing impairment that is not corrected by use of a hearing aid/device, which must be worn during taxi, take-off and landing.
Note: Hearing aids/devices that use Bluetooth are permitted to be used at all times onboard A330, A380, B737 and QantasLink aircraft. On B747 aircraft, hearing aids/devices that use Bluetooth must be switched off during taxi, takeoff and landing, therefore passengers with Bluetooth hearing aids/devices are not permitted to be seated in exit rows on B747 aircraft. - not utilise any part of the aircraft door (or its surrounding area) to rest your feet, or any other personal item(s).
Somewhere, somehow we became a society/societies of offence and feelings being of paramount importance. I am too old for that... so if you ooze into my seat or risk my safety I'm going to forget my manners.
Dec 17, 2017, 10:55 pm
#24
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I cannot see how cheaper fares is a bad thing
For those that are happy to pay double to pay equivalent fares of 30 years ago, cabins such as premium economy and business can be purchased to gjve something better than economy of 30 years ago
I am not sure though how that has anything to do with ending up sat next to a person who is unable to fit in the seating area of 1 seat
For those that are happy to pay double to pay equivalent fares of 30 years ago, cabins such as premium economy and business can be purchased to gjve something better than economy of 30 years ago
I am not sure though how that has anything to do with ending up sat next to a person who is unable to fit in the seating area of 1 seat
Cheaper fares are bad, as they don't allow the airline to profitable offering a reasonable seat and service. Its a drive to the bottom.
Not everyone should be able to fly, and ALL of us, needn't fly so much. Myself included.
In the past 30 days I've been to South Pacific, Middle East, Europe and North America, all from a HKG start off point. Only one was required.
I get FT is about minimising travel cost.. but in the end, the airline must make a profit or it won't exist.
Dec 18, 2017, 12:18 am
#25
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,607
Given a choice between comfort and price, price wins out
There are a small number who would take comfort ( and there are offerings tailored for them such as Premium Economy )
Why should it be unnecessarily priced out of reach of some customers so that others can have more comfort
If you skipped the flights that you didn't need to take, it would seem that you would be able to afford a higher class of travel
There are a small number who would take comfort ( and there are offerings tailored for them such as Premium Economy )
Why should it be unnecessarily priced out of reach of some customers so that others can have more comfort
If you skipped the flights that you didn't need to take, it would seem that you would be able to afford a higher class of travel
Dec 21, 2017, 4:17 pm
#30
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 699
The other condition some (but not all) airlines enforce for exit rows is that no passengers may use a seat belt extender.
The official line behind this one is that it creates a trip hazard as people exit the plane, but it also obviously works as a limit for excessively large people from sitting in that row.
The official line behind this one is that it creates a trip hazard as people exit the plane, but it also obviously works as a limit for excessively large people from sitting in that row.