royboy99

We booked business class Brisbane to Honolulu via Sydney. On return journey delayed 3 hours in Sydney due to weather. Whilst we were waiting in lounge for our flight we got called to proceed immediately to gate. We had been put on an earlier (also delayed) flight.

At the gate we where told that no business class seats and we will be sitting in economy but they will arrange refund. Asked if our bags were on the plane and told possibly... Anyway got to Brisbane and bags were not there. We lodged baggage claim and they arrived the next day.

Qantas never called, and after a week called them. Told they couldn't do anything over the phone, have to lodge a complaint online. I did this two weeks ago. Still no contact so called them again and was told that they had credited 8000 air miles.

I advised that I would prefer a cash refund for the ticket class. Was told that there was no cash difference on my ticket as was its calculated from Honolulu to Brisbane and we had flow most of it business class?

Is this fair compensation for the downgrade?

Dave Noble

Unfortunately there is no mandatory compensation that is required for downgrades in Australia and the fare for the journey would be the same whether you flew in business class or economy class from Sydney to Brisbane

8000 points is enough for an upgrade between Sydney and Brisbane

If you feel that this is not enough, really need to try and figure what you would want and ask

As far as a cash compensation goes, I doubt that you will be too successful

og

Its 8000 points plus the co-payment. So I'd expect more than 8000 points.

Dave Noble

What co-payment?

The table indicates 5k from a flexible economy to business, but yes, 8k is 2k short of a discount upgrade

This is a situation where the airline has no obligation to pay anything, so it is best , I would say, to work out what reasonable amount you wish to ask for , rather than relying on airline offering what you want

og

Ahh, my mistake. I was focusing on an economy award ticket - not the upgrade cost.

mw331

Does this rule apply to all domestic flights or just those booked as part of an international itinerary (e.g. SYD-MEL-DXB)?

If I were to book a flight (QF506) from Sydney to Brisbane in Business class on Saturday, January 21st 2017 it would cost $739 with a fully flexible Economy fare costing $399 and discount Economy $125.

Let's say for arguments sake the abovementioned flight is overbooked in Business and I am involuntarily downgraded at the gate (or at check in) to Economy class.

Would I not be entitled to claim the fare difference between Business and either flexible Economy ($340) or discount Economy ($614) depending on what was available at the time of booking (or the amount of status credits and points Qantas awarded for the downgraded flight)?

Dave Noble

There is a big difference between just buying a business class SYD-BNE vs buying a HNL-SYD-BNE ticket

The HNL_BNE fare is not a HNL-SYD fare plus a SYD-BNE fare .

If purchasing just SYD-BNE then indeed there would be a difference in fare

In Feb
BNE-HNL business class r/t is $4000 plus taxes and charges
SYD-HNL business class r/t is $4000 plus taxes and charges

The BNE-SYD-BNE sectors are costing nothing on top on the SYD-HNL-SYD

If the person had purchased separate tickets at $4000 SYD-HNL-SYD plus $1304 for BNE-SYD-BNE, then would definitely be entitled to a reimbursement

Whether the BNE-SYD-BNE is flown in economy or business, there is no difference in price for BNE-HNL r/t

mw331

Thanks Dave. That is what I suspected as the domestic leg tends to be more or less 'free' when booked as part of an international itinerary.

NZ_Flyer

Definitely remember to claim Business points and status credits for the SYD-BNE flight as you are entitled to those, ask QF for original routing credit.

JohnK

Really disappointing to read these downgrade threads. You paid to travel in business class on all 4 legs not just 3/4 legs regardless of how the airfare is priced.

The airlines in Australia have had it all their way for too long. Hoping the whispers are correct and changes coming sooner rather than later.

Dave Noble

3/4 legs really nicely misrepresents that about 96% of the journey was in business class and 100% of the international sectors, where the highest quality product exists, were in business class

Platy

The question also arises as to whether the OP was ever offered a choice: go economy now or business class later when seat is available.

When my house guest faced a downgrade on a recent PER-BNE-CNS she was not offered a choice and lied to about holes in NE being full (see another thread - no need to repeat details herein).

IMHO very very bad form by QF and very worrying that the airline appears to be making the practice commonplace.

Platy

IHMO I somehow doubt that such childishly simplistic logic would be viewed as arobust defence in a legal context wherein the airline was forced to defend failing to provide the services as advertised and paid for by the consumer.

Put another way...oh, sorry, sir, you bought the car with the window tints, but we couldn't be bothered to supply them and since they are only 1% of the purchase price of the vehicles ($400 of $40,000) you'll have to take your brand new car without the tints ....tough luck, fella. But here's a voucher with absolutely no cash value (none of your cash back - we're going top keep that)...now excuse, us, with have no more time for you because we're very busy pulling the same trick on other unsuspecting customers and we really don't give a r-ts ar-e if you ever do business with us again...

...just remember, Dave, that whatever bulls--t QF puts in the contract of carriage consumer and trade practices legal provision overrides such.

That said, it would be really nice if we had legal clarity in this country regarding compensation for the all too regular failures to supply by the airlines...

It never ceases to amaze me how folk seem to think that consumer / trade practices provisions somehow don't apply to an airline- facing a similar situation with a different product people would be quite determined to seek suitable cash settlement.

Dave Noble

There is the consideration on how much more delayed the passengers would have been if not rebooked onto an earlier service

The poster indicated a 3 hour delay in Sydney due to weather

I would be surprised if the airline put passenger on an earlier flight without agreement .

This wasn't just a downgrade on a normally operating flight , but delayed flights due to weather, rebooking to try and get the passenger home and an oversold cabin

It seems odd that the airline would rebook and downgrade without any involvement of the passenger

The passengers could have refused to board in economy class and waited for the original flight I suspect

Platy

Dave, most of your response is speculation. To note that you make the very telling reference to "oversold cabin"....

In any case, the airline's problems shouldn't be used as an excuse to fail to provide the service paid for by a customer.

Please consider that weather events (if that is the excuse this time) should be part of the operational risk matrix with appropriate mitigations ready to deploy: the airline may be not able to predict when, but certain knows such events will occur at a certain probability and with a certain severity.

That's basic management 101 for any operation.

And if all else fails, the airline should be prepared to offer reasonable compensation rather than using its shonky tricks to palm off the customer.

Meanwhile, I'm told by a 717 pilot that QF is "skimping" on maintenance (a "just in need" approach) and swapping out aircraft with business class for those without (e.g. some 717 routes), so assuming that is indeed true the airline is hardly putting the customer first since such practices result in flights being avoidably delayed cancelled as engineers tend to issues....and in some cases business class customers being faced with QF removing that service from their flight.