RTWfamily

We are a family of 4 from the US on a gap year. We left home in early Sept 12 and will return in Aug 13. Qantas owes us a $14k USD refund but we seem to have reached a point where I need to escalate and I'm hoping someone reads this and can help...maybe knows someone at Qantas even.

Here is the story: On Feb 22 we flew from Auckland-Singapore on an American Airlines reward ticket. The flight was on Qantas. As an AA Platinum member we checked-in to the flight in the Qantas FF lounge. We were told that we could not board the flight because we did have a return tickets to the US. Not an ongoing ticket from Singapore but tickets back to the US. We were flabbergasted. This was our 21st flight of our gap year and we had never been asked to show this...only occasionally proof of onward travel from the place we were flying to. We were directed to the Qantas sales desk where we were reprimanded for not knowing the "tmatic" rules of travel. I pulled out my computer, logged on to the US Dept of State and Singapore government websites to prove this was not needed but it didn't matter. If we wanted to get on the flight, we had to buy a ticket right then and there or stay in Auckland until we purchased our flights back to the US.

The net is that we decided to fly. The sales/customer service lady sold us a fully refundable flight from Singapore-LAX at a future date in late March. As I am also (thanks to advice from this FlyerTalk) an AMEX Platinum cardholder, I paid for it with the card.

By now, it was getting close to boarding time. The normal printer was not cooperating so the Qantas lady wrote us a hand-written note to give to the check-in counter saying we were approved to fly. We checked-in and went back to sales to get our ticket. The printer still wasn't working so she printed us the tickets on one of the old-school dot matrix printers and sent us on our way in a hurry. She was also overloaded by now with other customers and handed us the tickets off to the side of the counter area.

The charge hit my AMEX account right away so I called AMEX from Singapore to explain the situation and they said no worries.

As an aside, Singapore authorities did not ask for proof of onward travel.

On March 12, prior to my AMEX bill being due, I called Qantas' 13 13 13 number on Skype to inform them that we would not be on the $14k flight in late March. The call went well and I was told the refund was being processed. The call lasted 30 minutes as I was put on hold for a long time while they called Auckland to see if we could get a 100% refund or have to pay a $100 penalty per person or $400. The answer back was good news, we would receive a full 100% refund.

On March 28th, with still no refund, I Skyped Qantas again. This is where the trouble started. I could not find the tickets. I looked everywhere, the kids journals, the lining of the suitcases, everywhere. I am certain that I left the tickets in Bali on the desk where I made the earlier call. They looked like the scrap paper my kids were using for math work so we probably recycled it accidentally. The very nice Qantas lady asked for the record locator number, but I didn't have it. They asked for my QA FF number, but I'm not a member. I gave the record locator number and ticket info for the flight from Auckland-Singapore but they said it was American Airlines info and didn't work. We tried everything, but in the end she said I would have to make it to a Qantas office where they could verify my identity.

At the same time, AMEX and Qantas both said that airline refunds (as opposed to a restaurant or retailer) can take some time and not to worry.

In early April, I issued a challenge with AMEX. They came back and said that a) I need to provide the original ticket or b) a copy of the receipt for the refund. Neither one of these are possible.

During a layover in Bangkok, I tracked down a Qantas customer service rep who did not appear busy when I walked up, but she was hopeless. She kept asking for my record locator number despite my telling her repeatedly that I didn't have it. Referring to my last Skype with Qantas and the need to verify our identity, I showed her our passports, my cute kids, anything to verify our identity but she couldn't help. She told me to dial 13 13 13.

In mid-April I faxed a detailed letter to Qantas Customer Care. No answer.
A few days later, I tweeted Customer Care and they responded immediately, giving me an email address to send the letter to, which I did immediately. No response. I emailed them again yesterday. No response.

My AMEX bill for the full amount is due in two days. I can't pay it and AMEX say's they can't help anymore.

I am astonished and in awe of the situation. How in this day and age, can me losing my paper tickets result in Qantas not standing my our transaction. We didn't even use their service that the $14k was meant for! Do their airline computer systems not possess the ability to look up the flight to see we weren't on it? Can their financial computer systems not see the $14k transaction? Can their telephony system not look up the record of our conversations? Can they not talk to the employee in Auckland?

And what about AMEX? I didn't hesitate to use their card but their investigation wasn't helpful at all.

I am not litigious but what do I need to do, contact a lawyer? Where? Auckland or Sydney? Does anyone have the email address of their CEO or head of Customer Care? Do I need to get mad and angry with them - to date I have been very calm and polite.

$14k is a ton of money to us. If we don't get the refund, we may have to end our gap year early. Plus, this has caused a lot of stress when I should be enjoying the time of my life with my wife and kids.

Please offer help and suggestions. Criticism of me losing my ticket is not needed as I've beat myself up enough over this. Thanks

Globaliser

Amex should have your ticket number. This will be a 13-digit number, and from what you say there is a good chance that it will start with the digits 081 (although this is not certain). My Amex statements have always stated the full ticket number.

The ticket number will be your best key to getting back into all the reservation and ticketing records that QF will need to find out what has happened.

You don't say which airline or route the Singapore-Los Angeles ticket was for. Did you enter any frequent flyer number into that booking? If you did, that airline's frequent flyer scheme (whether online or by phone) may also be a route for finding out the booking reference.

RTWfamily

I had previously given Qantas all of the info from the AMEX receipt to no avail. There is a 18 digit reference number beginning with 32013058XXXXXXXXXX

We booked a Qantas flight from Singapore-LAX with a layover in Sydney.

Thanks

Globaliser

Then you should definitely have a 13-digit number starting with the digits 081.

As I say, all my Amex statements have always quoted the ticket number in full, whether when buying tickets or refunding tickets, if the transaction has been done directly with the airline (or when buying published fare tickets through a travel agent). When tickets are bought in this way, I've always seen a separate charge for each person (as each person has a different ticket number).

Even if your Amex statement does not show this, you should be able to ask Amex for it.

Does your Amex statement show a separate line for each person travelling on the tickets that you bought and are trying to refund?

LHR/MEL/Europe FF

Airline refunds can take 6-8 weeks to process. It sucks I know, but that is the standard time many will tell you.

Anyways - can you try calling AMEX and getting a temporary credit or hold on your account? Or some other note explaining a refund is underway?

The requirement to have a ticket out (of Asia in this case) is standard requirement for QF and many other airlines. They have to carry you back in the event you are denied immigration clearance in the country you are going to. A return ticket (or at least an onwards ticket) is their security in the event they have to take you back. The exceptions to this are if you have the right to stay in the country you are going to (work permit or citizenship for example).

At this stage the booking would need to be retrieved from the archive (for want of a better word) for QF to view it. When you called on the 12th of March the booking was still active in the system and so they could have found it simply by your name. Now the flight date has passed they need to go back into their systems and find it. That's not impossible or very difficult from what I understand - but it can take some time. So the booking hasn't been lost for ever.

You will get a solution to this - just it's going to take time. Hopefully AMEX can work with you to put a hold on the amount due.

QF Lad

There are 2 ways QF will be able to track your ticket:

(1) by doing a search on your credit card numbers and identifying charges against it, and working backwards from there; and

(2) if you know the date and flight you were booked on, they will be able to look up your name, identify the ticket and work backwards from there.

Ringing Customer Care directly may do the trick, but you may need whatever department processes transactions. You can ring Qantas head office in Sydney directly on 02 9691 3636 and ask to be put through to Customer Care, or atleast ask to speak to someone who can deal this with this issue (you could ask for the department that processes credit card transactions) if Customer Care fails which I doubt (my experiences with Customer Care have been fantastic, and I have dealt with a couple of very competent people there over the years).

As an aside, I reguarly buy expensive refundable tickets in Qantas simply because my plans often change for business and I often regularly end up needing to refund tickets. And QF regularly refund within the week to my credit card, none of this BA nonsense of taking 2 months to refund a ticket. And if you explain the urgency I am sure they will act on your situation straight away.

If there is any airline I would want to deal with in this situation it would be Qantas. You just need the right person to speak to, and a call to Head Office or trying to find the right person in Customer Care will be a step in the right direction.

Dave Noble

To the OP; if you have the date of travel and flight numbers etc, phoning QF the agent may be able to find the booking information and give you the booking reference / ticket number, otherwise calling customer care ( as suggested above ) tomorrow will almost certainly work

Hopefully they will be able to confirm that refund processing is taking place and give a timescale till it credits

You mention paper tickets. Were these actually proper paper tickets or just an itinerary printout? If it was a real paper ticker, you may have problems since to refund a paper ticket you need to return the ticket

I would call QF asap and then once you have details, call AMEX and armed with this information you may be able to properly initiate a dispute and so have the owed amount put into suspension, though if QF has said that they are refunding it, AX may not be prepared to do a dispute

number_6

Amex will not dispute a refundable ticket just because you are wanting to refund it but haven't yet. The goods paid for have been properly delivered. Normally QF does refund within 3 days, when all is in order. Your bad luck not to have a record of the PNR number or the ticket numbers -- normally QF has always emailed a PDF document to me with this information. Perhaps worth checking your email, unless you didn't provide QF the email address. At this point it will take QF some time and effort to find this; the AA info is worthless, as you have discovered -- there is no ONE in ONEWORLD QF Lad's advice to phone QF head office in Sydney is spot on; avoid dealing with local "QF" agents in Asia who are generally not QF employees and don't know much of QF's systems (this is true of all airlines at outstations, fwiw).

Finally, if you have travel insurance, and for this kind of a trip you must, then the better policies will cover you (I just checked my policy, and it would pay 100% of that $14K cost). If you don't have travel insurance, maybe time to buy it now before you get a $100K medical evacuation flight bill.

Dave Noble

AMEX WILL accept a dispute if a refund has been requested but not been delivered; I raised one only this morning. I agree that they will not accept a dispute if no attempt to get refunded back from the merchant has been made

I don't see how travel insurance would help in this case; no insurable issue has occurred as far as I can see. The passenger chose to buy a ticket

Guy Betsy

It seems ridiculous that QF thinks that anyone with a First World passport would like to remain in Singapore. It is the only country where one can't disappear upon arriving into the country. For all intent purposes, you do not need to show proof of return to your home country when going to Singapore. But apparently this wrong info has only been for flights out of Australia. I can't imagine that there are many Australians planning to enter Singpore illegally!

See this post or similar situation..
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/other...old-coast.html

I also echo the ino as given here that your Amex statement will show the ticket numbers. With that you will be able to contact ANY Qantas office to process the refund.

jmw2323

what an asinine statement.

Dave Noble

The Gold Coast passenger in that thread seems to have been correctly denied boarding since there is a requirement for entry to Singapore to have an onward or return ticket out of Singapore according to the timatic link from star site

Whether QF thinks it is likely for someone to be denied entry for not having required documents is not really relevent as to whether they are going to be prepared to take a risk on the passenger being denied

- Visitors are required to hold proof of sufficient funds to
cover their stay and documents required for their next
destination.
- Visitors not holding return/onward tickets could be refused
entry.

If the passenger in this thread did have an onward ticket and required documents for next destination after Singapore , then seems to have been incorrectly refused travel. If didn't have an onward ticket , then the agent was correct

LHR/MEL/Europe FF

Interested to explore this - on what basis would the 14K be covered?

RooFlyer

Hope the OP gets a prompt resolution. AMEX then persevere with QF agent in Australia seems to be the way through.

And/or: Is "Red Roo" the QF company rep on this forum (is in the contacts list)? Send a PM to Red Roo asking for help / how to resolve.

MSPeconomist

While it isn't explicit, I interpret the OP as saying that they did have onward tickets, but not tickets from Singapore directly back to the USA, which is what QF demanded.