Rambuster

If QF is the worst airline, then I will give up flying today forever...

AnonymousCoward

QANTAS never had a J award seat available.
AS took OP's miles, and booked OP into an available award seat (with OP's agreement)

huh? So, really I should get some AS miles, ask them to take the points for a business (or first!) class return flight, and book me into whatever seats are available (even economy), then turn up at the airport and say "well, AS took the points for a J/F class seat, so please upgrade me for free?"

I'm pretty sure this would turn out to be very unprofitable for QANTAS very quickly.

OP was booked in PE. They were never booked in J.
AS took miles for a J award seat, but never booked OP in J.

drewbles

Did you actually read what any of the helpful posters in here have posted?

You booked with AS. AS PAID QF for a Premium Economy Seat, not a J seat. QF have NOTHING to do with this. QF provided you with exactly what AS had paid for.

As you booked with AS and AS issued your ticket, your beef is entirely with AS. If AS told you that you'd be in J, then fine. If they told you that you would be in Y+ and 'may be able to upgrade to J' then they were really giving you a false hope. QF would have released J Award inventory to AS and other partners. When that's gone, it's generally gone and they tend to not release more award seats once they're gone (read the cases cited where people have been on an award QF ticket in J, changed dates, and the award J inventory was not returned to the award booking class but rather released to paid J/D/I class for revenue).

QF has a very very strict policy on upgrades. Use points, pay or don't expect to sit in any cabin but the one you're ticketed in. QF Customer Service would not tell you that you could sit in J if one was available. I've never ever seen any QF agent, airport or phone, tell me this when I've asked about J awards (It's been a case of "sorry you'll have to ticket in Y+/Y"). If they did, which ones told you this? Phone? Airport?

As I mentioned in a previous post, QF yield management *will* let a cabin fly with empty seats, despite award availability being zero. It's a way QF ensure that their premium cabins stay premium, and encourages people to actually pay for it rather than airlines like AA where if you're EXP you're just upgraded, space permitting. AA's Domestic First is a joke. Compare that to something like QF's Domestic Business, and it's chalk and cheese.

Maybe1

There appears to have been a misunderstanding here. What both airlines would have meant is that if a business class award seat became available, you would have access to it.

The misunderstanding occured because, you expected QF (as per your personal experiences of flying in the USA) to convert all unsold/empty business class seats to award/upgrade seats at the airport. This certainly happens on many airlines in the USA: in fact at many gates it is possible to see an upgrade priority list for just these seats. In Australia, however, the airlines do not operate in this manner. Unfortunately for us Aussies, they are quite happy (as others have pointed out) to fly empty seats in business class, rather than convert them to award/upgrade seats.

Of course you are welcome to your point of view, however I think that QF and many envious airlines in the USA, would disagree.

The key to understanding this is - that (yes) Qantas is not maximising revenue, but implementing overall business processes designed to maximise profit (or yield).

Quote:

Originally Posted by drewbles

AA's Domestic First is a joke. Compare that to something like QF's Domestic Business, and it's chalk and cheese.

I find the two products extremely comparable: major differences are lounges/access, larger portions of everything* served onboard AA & NGBC seats on AA 767s. As for the staff, generally I encounter quality & experienced people in the air and on the ground on both airlines. If anything, I would rank the AA domestic F product just ahead of QF’s domestic J!

serfty

No! Qantas recently posted a reduced profit, but certainly not a loss ...

http://www.news.com.au/business/qant...-1225763692129

drewbles

Sorry didn't add a caveat. "except the 767 services" which F is, indeed, good. The MD80/757/737 fleet though, forget about it

seat_4D

you certainly have a bitter opinion based on what happened before you boarded your first flight on the airline. As so many others have posted, you got exactly what you paid for, so have no reason to complain. As someone who flies very regularly with Qantas, absent of these free upgrades, I would have been very disappointed if they handed you the free upgrade.

They stuck to their policy, I applaud them, and am unsure as to how this thread has moved through 5 pages of comments with you seemingly not understanding that you recieved exactly what you were entitled to, no more, no less.

Perhaps your beef should be with Alaska Air for providing you with false hope and expectation?

IMOA

But Alaska provided perfect customer service by telling him exactly what he wanted to hear, how could that be grounds for complaint.

QAN

Interesting thread. JeremyWake, you have stimulated some, dare I say, protective responses. As a QF shareholder I must say I am comforted by the defence to the flying kangaroo. I might add that almost all responses present valid and correct information - some not so informative but yet spring to its defence by words to the effect 'Here we go again'. See here and especially here! We should try to get beyond this at FT but, hey, we're all tribal after all

Unfortunately, the informative parts in most responses are buried in the not so hidden irritation from the QF supporters - an irritation no doubt fuelled by your perceived audacity to complain in hyperbolae about their beloved airline.

JeremyWake your original gripe, which I respect and believe is in response to the frustration experienced by you on the day, was most certainly a result of the very different practices between QF and AS (and AUS and USA, in general). As one of the previous posters pointed out, one such difference is how some prefer to maximise revenue whilst others stick to yield.

I have had decades of travel on both QF and UA and find them both excellent and each not without their faults. I've enjoyed the J cabin in QF but have been very disappointed by their transtasman route, for example. (Fortunately, UA have an excellent partner for that region in NZ). I've enjoyed the ability to spend cash at the gate to be upgraded to J on UA (something that I got laughed at when I tried it with QF) and enjoyed their PS service.

I hope you enjoyed the J cabin and the service on your return trip and chalk up the orginial gate encounter (and some of the responses here) to experience. Most of all I hope you enjoyed Australia, my other home

number_6

Unfortunately that isn't how IATA works and no airline is allowed to do that! The airline issuing the ticket controls how much is paid to the airilne flying the sector! This is fundamental to how airline tickets work, and changing this would cause major chaos!!!!! Or lead to tickets not being interchangable between airlines! AS issued the ticket at PE instead of J, and AS must reissue the ticket at J in order for QF to collect the money for J instead of PE. Your beef is with AS for not issuing the ticket as J; now they presumably could not issue it as J due to lack of inventory on that flight/date. You should have gone to the AS LAX supervisor in T3; there is 90% probabilitiy that they could have sorted it with QF if they wanted to help you (the latter is a function of your FF status with AS and your demeanour). Instead you chose the confrontation route; reap as you sow, at least on AS. Maybe you can learn a teensy bit from FT, there has been good advice on this thread but you seem more intent on venting than learning.

number_6

The catering cost of J LAX-AKL is about USD 100, so that was a cost that QF would bear (and AS would not pay for). You could have tried slipping the agent a Ben Franklin (USD 100 bill for those in Oz).

JeremyWake

Both Alaska and Qantas customer service told me if business class seats were available they would put me in business class. So I was told misinformation by both airlines. Qantas customer service said only the LAX gate crew could change the ticket. We had a 3 way phone call.

I still think Qantas sucks. I don't plan to fly this airline again or recommend them to anyone else.

VH-RMD

I am sure that many at Qantas management will be wailing and gnashing their teeth at the thought of the loss of your 'business'...

drewbles

They said if any are available. 100% correct. If any AWARD seats become available not revenue.

Don't fly it if you don't want to fine. But stop being factually incorrect. Most of us here fly 20-50+ sectors on QF a year. We have a little bit more of a clue what happens on QF than you do. Likewise, you're probably far better clued at AS than most of us are.

JeremyWake

Well I think Qantas as bad policies that result in poor customer service. Sorry, Qantas sucks.