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AY - ORD-SIN - $1991 r/t - Premium Economy

AY - ORD-SIN - $1991 r/t - Premium Economy

Old Mar 26, 2024, 8:53 am
  #1  
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Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: CLT
Posts: 1,861
AY - ORD-SIN - $1991 r/t - Premium Economy

I was looking for ways to earn oneworld miles to credit to American departing the US, which is getting more difficult to do at a reasonable cost due to BA / IB switching to revenue based earning for loyalty points. One option is Finnair from Chicago (ORD) to Singapore (SIN) in premium economy which is $1991 roundtrip on several dates in late April and early May. This works from NYC too, but the cost per mile flown is higher because it's a shorter distance.

Saturday night stay or 6 day minimum stay required. A stopover up to 5 days in Helsinki is free.

Crediting to American
20362 Loyalty Points / Redeemable Miles (Cost per LP - 9.778 cents USD)

Crediting to Alaska
10181 Elite Qualifying / Redeemable Miles (Cost per EQM - 19.556 cents USD)

Crediting to British Airways
360 Tier Points (Cost per TP - $5.53 USD / 4.38 GBP)

Crediting to Iberia
1700 Elite Points (Cost per Elite Point - $1.17 USD / 1.08 EUR)
Iberia L.A.E.

Google Flights
https://www.google.com/travel/flight...jcNUnu4qj43dZ7
https://www.google.com/travel/flight...HUTwvpLMJW3gy6

Fare Rules

Category 3: Seasonal restrictions

FROM AREA 1 -
PERMITTED 24DEC THROUGH 03MAY OR 09JUL THROUGH 13DEC FOR
EACH TRANSATLANTIC SECTOR.
TO AREA 1 -
PERMITTED 09JAN THROUGH 11MAY OR 14AUG THROUGH 30DEC FOR
EACH TRANSATLANTIC SECTOR.

Category 6: Minimum stay requirements

TRAVEL FROM TURNAROUND MUST COMMENCE NO EARLIER THAN 6
DAYS AFTER ARRIVAL AT TURNAROUND
OR - TRAVEL FROM TURNAROUND MUST COMMENCE NO EARLIER THAN
1201AM ON THE FIRST SUN AFTER ARRIVAL AT TURNAROUND.

Category 8: Stopover restrictions

4 STOPOVERS PERMITTED ON THE PRICING UNIT
LIMITED TO 2 FREE AND 2 AT EUR 75.00 EACH.
1 FREE IN HEL
1 FREE IN AREA 3
2 AT EUR 75.00 EACH.
A STOPOVER MAY NOT EXCEED 130 HOURS.
NOTE -
STOPOVER IS UPTO 5 DAYS/130 HOURS

Category 15: Sales restrictions

TICKETS MUST BE ISSUED ON AY AND MAY NOT BE SOLD IN
VENEZUELA/NIGERIA/ANGOLA/EGYPT/RUSSIA/RUSSIA (EAST OF THE
URALS) AND MAY ONLY BE SOLD IN AREA 1/AREA 2/AREA 3

Category 19: Discounts

ACCOMPANIED CHILD 2-11 - CHARGE 75 PERCENT OF THE FARE.
TICKET DESIGNATOR - CH

Book directly with the airline.
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Routings
Code:
Fare Routing Search:
Departing CHI on 03/26/24 for SIN
Fare basis code TLN0S7CZ
Flying AY
Routing via North Atlantic

    V FARE BASIS     BK    FARE   TRAVEL-TICKET AP  MINMAX  RTG
  1   TLN0S7CZ       T R  1550.00     ----      -/‡ SU/  - AT01
PASSENGER TYPE-ADT                 AUTO PRICE-YES              
FROM-CHI TO-SIN    CXR-AY    TVL-26MAR24  RULE-CLP1 IPRA/1
FARE BASIS-TLN0S7CZ          SPECIAL FARE  DIS-E   VENDOR-ATP
FARE TYPE-ZPX      RT-PREMIUM ECONOMY INSTANT PURCHASE
USD  1550.00  CONS  E15SEP23 D-INFINITY   FC-TLN0S7CZ  FN-     
SYSTEM DATES - CREATED 14SEP23/0322  EXPIRES INFINITY
 
**** CONSTRUCTED ROUTING CHI-SIN/AY      EF-15SEP23 DIS-INDEF
**ADDON ORG      CHI   TARG/1    PUBLISHED ROUTING 7000
**PUBLISHED  NYC-SIN   TARG/1    PUBLISHED ROUTING 7000
 
/VIA THE ATLANTIC/
 BETWEEN TYO AND FUK SURFACE SECTOR PERMITTED
 BETWEEN TYO AND NGO SURFACE SECTOR PERMITTED
 BETWEEN TYO AND OSA SURFACE SECTOR PERMITTED
 BETWEEN TYO AND SPK SURFACE SECTOR PERMITTED
 BETWEEN TYO AND FUK SURFACE SECTOR PERMITTED
 BETWEEN TYO AND NGO SURFACE SECTOR PERMITTED
 BETWEEN TYO AND OSA SURFACE SECTOR PERMITTED
 BETWEEN TYO AND SPK SURFACE SECTOR PERMITTED
DOM ROUTE VALIDATION APPLIES WITHIN ORIG/DEST COUNTRIES
MAP CONSTRUCTED LEFT TO RIGHT AND RIGHT TO LEFT
 1. CHI-AA/AY-CHI/DFW/LAX/MIA/NYC/SEA-AY-HEL-AY-BKK-3K-SIN
 2. CHI-AA/AY-CHI/DFW/LAX/MIA/NYC/SEA-AY-HEL-AY-BKK-AY/PG-SIN
 3. CHI-AA/AY-CHI/DFW/LAX/MIA/NYC/SEA-AY-HEL-AY-BKK-CX-SIN
 4. CHI-AA/AY-CHI/DFW/LAX/MIA/NYC/SEA-AY-HEL-AY-HKG-AY-SIN
 5. CHI-AA/AY-CHI/DFW/LAX/MIA/NYC/SEA-AY-HEL-AY-HKG-AY/CX-SIN
 6. CHI-AA/AY-CHI/DFW/LAX/MIA/NYC/SEA-AY-HEL-AY-SIN
 7. CHI-AY-HEL-AY-BKK-3K-SIN
 8. CHI-AY-HEL-AY-BKK-AY/PG-SIN
 9. CHI-AY-HEL-AY-BKK-CX-SIN
10. CHI-AY-HEL-AY-HKG-AY-SIN
11. CHI-AY-HEL-AY-HKG-AY/CX-SIN
12. CHI-AY-HEL-AY-SIN
.


Full Fare Rules
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cruser1 is offline  
Old Mar 26, 2024, 9:27 am
  #2  
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Looks like you can possibly do better with a connection in Hong Kong (HKG)

https://www.google.com/travel/flight...BUVyZAyfJFxNQ8

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Last edited by cruser1; Mar 26, 2024 at 9:36 am
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Old Mar 26, 2024, 10:24 am
  #3  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 2,055
Really true that it's become difficult to mileage run your way to any type of LP or miles accumulation. The only reason you would pursue the above is if you actually have to travel there. The alternative has become spending on AAhotels where that nearly $2k spend could easily get you over 100k LP and miles under the right circumstances. But 50k LP is easily obtainable locally in hotel stays. The great days of mileage runs for status/miles are over at AA unfortunately. That being said, I really appreciate you posting fares as they have been useful in numerous other ways!
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Old Mar 26, 2024, 10:24 pm
  #4  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 523
Originally Posted by tfjim
Really true that it's become difficult to mileage run your way to any type of LP or miles accumulation. The only reason you would pursue the above is if you actually have to travel there. The alternative has become spending on AAhotels where that nearly $2k spend could easily get you over 100k LP and miles under the right circumstances. But 50k LP is easily obtainable locally in hotel stays. The great days of mileage runs for status/miles are over at AA unfortunately. That being said, I really appreciate you posting fares as they have been useful in numerous other ways!
The best value out there is still round the world tickets imho. $6 to $7K for 200k RDMs and LPs in J class if an AA EXP.
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Old Mar 26, 2024, 11:21 pm
  #5  
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Location: CLT
Posts: 1,861
Originally Posted by anc305
The best value out there is still round the world tickets imho. $6 to $7K for 200k RDMs and LPs in J class if an AA EXP.
That would be about 91k loyalty points for somebody without status. The circumference of earth is 24901 miles so is that really correct? I would think at most you'd receive 150% mileage for each mile flown, not nearly 400% mileage? I realize you'd zig-zag around the globe so the mileage flown will exceed 24k, but not enough to double the distance around Earth.

Otherwise, yes, 7 to 8 cents per loyalty point is pretty good!


200000 / 2.2 = 90909 (EXP receive a 120% bonus, so removing that)
Introducing AAdvantage® Loyalty Point Rewards

Last edited by cruser1; Mar 26, 2024 at 11:52 pm
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Old Mar 27, 2024, 8:11 am
  #6  
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
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Posts: 453
Originally Posted by cruser1
That would be about 91k loyalty points for somebody without status. The circumference of earth is 24901 miles so is that really correct? I would think at most you'd receive 150% mileage for each mile flown, not nearly 400% mileage? I realize you'd zig-zag around the globe so the mileage flown will exceed 24k, but not enough to double the distance around Earth.

Otherwise, yes, 7 to 8 cents per loyalty point is pretty good!


200000 / 2.2 = 90909 (EXP receive a 120% bonus, so removing that)
Introducing AAdvantage® Loyalty Point Rewards

Is Finnair's PE that much better than Singapore's? Singapore's PE from NYC hovers around $1250-$1450 R/T.
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Old Mar 27, 2024, 8:29 am
  #7  
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Originally Posted by ATLConsultant
Is Finnair's PE that much better than Singapore's? Singapore's PE from NYC hovers around $1250-$1450 R/T.

Singapore Airlines is a good option, but I had said in my first post that this was about acquiring oneworld mileage, which wouldn't work flying Singapore. Anyways, ORD-HEL-HKG-SIN is 21766 miles roundtrip and JFK-SIN is 19074 miles roundtrip on a separate alliance.
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Old Mar 27, 2024, 9:32 am
  #8  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 523
Originally Posted by cruser1
That would be about 91k loyalty points for somebody without status. The circumference of earth is 24901 miles so is that really correct? I would think at most you'd receive 150% mileage for each mile flown, not nearly 400% mileage? I realize you'd zig-zag around the globe so the mileage flown will exceed 24k, but not enough to double the distance around Earth.

Otherwise, yes, 7 to 8 cents per loyalty point is pretty good!


200000 / 2.2 = 90909 (EXP receive a 120% bonus, so removing that)
Introducing AAdvantage® Loyalty Point Rewards
Your way off base. Look on the Oneworld thread that explains the OW RTW tickets. Explains it all. Many examples posted that have 60K plus miles flown and some segments that yield 3.7 x miles ( D class ) flown for EXP
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Old Mar 27, 2024, 10:03 am
  #9  
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Originally Posted by anc305
Your way off base. Look on the Oneworld thread that explains the OW RTW tickets. Explains it all. Many examples posted that have 60K plus miles flown and some segments that yield 3.7 x miles ( D class ) flown for EXP
Ok, so I was off on exactly how far people were flying, but not the earnings per mile flown. Not everybody has Executive Platinum status, so that doesn't mean much. If you convert that 3.7 to base mileage it's 1.68 miles per mile flown or 168% mileage, which means some segments earn 150% or less and others are earning 175%.
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Old Mar 27, 2024, 11:22 am
  #10  
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While a round the world ticket can be a good tool for earning miles, they aren't as advantageous for somebody in the US, which is what this thread is for, as anc305 makes it sound. Those $6-$7k prices are for origination points where fares are often lower - Cairo, Scandinavia, and various points in Southeast-Asia. A DONE4 departing the US has a base fare of 11071.43, which isn't what people are using to fly 60k miles in business. A DONE5 has a base fare of 12683.93 and a DONE6 has a base fare of 14618.93.

If somebody managed to travel 60k miles across 5 continents on a DONE5 departing the US the cost would be $12683.93 and about $1500 in taxes and fees, so the total cost would be nearly $14.5k!
  • Cost per Mile Flown = 1450000 / 60000 = 24.167 cents USD per mile flown
  • Cost per Base Mile or Cost per Loyalty Point = 1450000 / 100800 = 14.385 cents USD (this figure is higher than the cost per LP of the flight in the original post!)
    *This is an under-estimation since a QF D fare earns 150% mileage so base mileage would be lower than 100k resulting in a higher cost per mile flown - https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/...nes/qantas.jsp

Sure, you can save several grand by flying a quarter or half-way around the globe to start your round the world tour (which sounds funny), but that also takes time and money! The actual price isn't as low as the sticker price might lead you to believe! You could use the final segment of your first round the world to position for your next one, but there will always be that initial positioning and a one-way flight is often more expensive than a roundtrip. All things to think of and be aware of if you're going to try to earn loyalty points with RTW tickets!



Round the World Fares Departing the United States -



Last edited by cruser1; Mar 27, 2024 at 11:29 am
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Old Mar 27, 2024, 11:55 am
  #11  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NRT / HND
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Posts: 5,622
Originally Posted by anc305
The best value out there is still round the world tickets imho. $6 to $7K for 200k RDMs and LPs in J class if an AA EXP.
That's a highly optimized itinerary. I've come close but haven't yet squeezed more than 50k on one. I think my most recent one I got about 150k LPs on (as EXP) since JL finally became an 150% cabin bonus.

Originally Posted by cruser1
That would be about 91k loyalty points for somebody without status. The circumference of earth is 24901 miles so is that really correct? I would think at most you'd receive 150% mileage for each mile flown, not nearly 400% mileage? I realize you'd zig-zag around the globe so the mileage flown will exceed 24k, but not enough to double the distance around Earth.

Otherwise, yes, 7 to 8 cents per loyalty point is pretty good!


200000 / 2.2 = 90909 (EXP receive a 120% bonus, so removing that)
Introducing AAdvantage® Loyalty Point Rewards
The circumference of the earth is not relevant. You can WAY over optimize a OW RTW ticket. There's no backtracking rule inside continents and DOH is considered Europe / ME. So you can literally fly every single intra-European flight via DOH as well as every North or South American flight to / from Europe via DOH (not to mention that most flights to / from Africa need to go via DOH anyway). Within Asia, if you really want to you can go TYO-DEL-HKG (stopover) HKG-DEL-KUL (Stopover)... etc... so the circumference of the world has very little to do with how many miles you can milk out of a pretty fairly priced OW RTW ticket.

Originally Posted by anc305
Your way off base. Look on the Oneworld thread that explains the OW RTW tickets. Explains it all. Many examples posted that have 60K plus miles flown and some segments that yield 3.7 x miles ( D class ) flown for EXP
I'm jealous of the ones getting 60k BIS, but since BA and IB are now revenue based for AAdvantage, I can't imagine many ways to get 60k, AND stay on airlines offering 150% cabin bonus (necessary for the 3.7x for EXPs). I recently put together a DONE5 with nearly all QR and JL codes at like 46k BIS miles, so really optimized for AA credit, but those are pretty hard to create now.

Originally Posted by cruser1
While a round the world ticket can be a good tool for earning miles, they aren't as advantageous for somebody in the US, which is what this thread is for, as anc305 makes it sound. Those $6-$7k prices are for origination points where fares are often lower - Cairo, Scandinavia, and various points in Southeast-Asia. A DONE4 departing the US has a base fare of 11071.43, which isn't what people are using to fly 60k miles in business. A DONE5 has a base fare of 12683.93 and a DONE6 has a base fare of 14618.93.

If somebody managed to travel 60k miles across 5 continents on a DONE5 departing the US the cost would be $12683.93 and about $1500 in taxes and fees, so the total cost would be nearly $14.5k!
  • Cost per Mile Flown = 1450000 / 60000 = 24.167 cents USD per mile flown
  • Cost per Base Mile or Cost per Loyalty Point = 1450000 / 100800 = 14.385 cents USD (this figure is higher than the cost per LP of the flight in the original post!)
    *This is an under-estimation since a QF D fare earns 150% mileage so base mileage would be lower than 100k resulting in a higher cost per mile flown - https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/...nes/qantas.jsp

Sure, you can save several grand by flying a quarter or half-way around the globe to start your round the world tour (which sounds funny), but that also takes time and money! The actual price isn't as low as the sticker price might lead you to believe! You could use the final segment of your first round the world to position for your next one, but there will always be that initial positioning and a one-way flight is often more expensive than a roundtrip. All things to think of and be aware of if you're going to try to earn loyalty points with RTW tickets!



Round the World Fares Departing the United States -

Nope, you're correct, so what people do is use their mileage account to position to somewhere with cheap RTWs and start there. AAdvantage miles (on partners) aren't very expensive to get to Japan or Norway from North America. You build in your stopover at home where you need it, either east or west bound. Buy another one at the point of origin and keep going, they're extremely flexible tickets.

Not discounting the fares you post, you do find a lot of interesting stuff, just saying there's a ton of merit in the RTW fares as well.
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Old Mar 27, 2024, 12:43 pm
  #12  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 523
dvs7310 - This is a routing I posted. Thanks for suming up a few posts on this thread. All I was trying to convey is look at the OW thread as there are a lot of attractive options.

Originally Posted by anc305
If you are an AA EXP, stay on Jl and QR when possible and AS in the USA. This is a example 210K+ DONE4 from TYO using no code shares.

HND-JFK-ANC-LAX-LIR-LAX-SJO-LAX-DOH-CMN-DOH-DUB-DOH-AKL-HKG-BLR-NRT
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Old Mar 27, 2024, 12:45 pm
  #13  
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dvs7310 I agree with all your comments. Thanks for your input! I'm not offended. I mostly wanted to point out that RTW tickets can be great and earn a huge number of miles at a relatively reasonable cost, but they aren't quite as easy and cost effective as anc305 was making them sound, and this was a thread about earning status on flights departing the US, but a RTW is NOT cost effective if you depart the US!



Maybe just a pet peeve, but posting EXP values might make things more attractive because the number is huge, but it just makes this more complicated because not everybody has that status (I do), so they have to convert back to base mileage and then multiply by their status multiplier (if required). It also makes it hard to compare the cost per LP unless we start posting everything with the EXP bonus.

Last edited by cruser1; Mar 27, 2024 at 1:23 pm
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Old Mar 27, 2024, 1:08 pm
  #14  
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Originally Posted by anc305
dvs7310 - This is a routing I posted. Thanks for suming up a few posts on this thread. All I was trying to convey is look at the OW thread as there are a lot of attractive options.

Originally Posted by anc305
If you are an AA EXP, stay on Jl and QR when possible and AS in the USA. This is a example 210K+ DONE4 from TYO using no code shares.

HND-JFK-ANC-LAX-LIR-LAX-SJO-LAX-DOH-CMN-DOH-DUB-DOH-AKL-HKG-BLR-NRT
For those of you without status or a lower status level than Executive Platinum, if this earns 210k LP as an EXP, then the base earn is 95454 loyalty points.

Base Fare of a DONE4 from TYO is $5157.00. Throw in $1500 in taxes and fees and the total cost is around $6650 USD + time and redeemable miles to reposition to / from Tokyo.

Cost per LP = 665000 / 95454 = 6.967 cents USD which is fantastic
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Old Mar 27, 2024, 5:14 pm
  #15  
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Originally Posted by dvs7310
There's no backtracking rule inside continents and DOH is considered Europe / ME. So you can literally fly every single intra-European flight via DOH as well as every North or South American flight to / from Europe via DOH (not to mention that most flights to / from Africa need to go via DOH anyway). Within Asia, if you really want to you can go TYO-DEL-HKG (stopover) HKG-DEL-KUL (Stopover)... etc... so the circumference of the world has very little to do with how many miles you can milk out of a pretty fairly priced OW RTW ticket.

This is the kind of content that keeps me coming back to FT ! Well done sir...
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