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*A - YMQ-TYO Business r/t ~$3700 USD (or lower?)

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*A - YMQ-TYO Business r/t ~$3700 USD (or lower?)

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Old Jul 19, 2023, 4:11 pm
  #1  
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*A - YMQ-TYO Business r/t ~$3700 USD (or lower?)
While not a screaming deal to Tokyo the long way (everyone knows the ow HEL fare has been around for a while), I found this Star Alliance fare quite interesting. This is the currently lowest published AC LH and LX P fare.

I say "or lower" because the published LH fare for PNCCA is $2829 USD but I have not been able to find anything at that price.

Normal routing is one stop through your favorite *A hub YUL-FRA/MUC/ZRH-NRT.
https://www.google.com/travel/flight...LTXdRQc7surPq6





However, the fare rules allow for unlimited transfers which gives you weird routing like this:
YUL-MUC-KIX ITM-NRT
NRT-ICN-FRA-CDG-YUL
https://www.google.com/travel/flight...eRnLa3WuSAxdLA





Fare rules are too long to post but are attached.
Attached Files
File Type: docx
lx_PNCCA.docx (24.6 KB, 25 views)
File Type: docx
lh_PNCCA.docx (25.1 KB, 20 views)
Last edited by JALsnipe; Jul 19, 2023 at 4:35 pm
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Old Jul 19, 2023, 4:39 pm
  #2  
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That second one looks like fun!

Edit: OH wait... The first TATL part is in PY... a little less fun.
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Old Jul 19, 2023, 4:42 pm
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Originally Posted by PLeblond
Edit: OH wait... The first TATL part is in PY... a little less fun.
Good callout - I didn't notice that the first time around. I wonder if there's no P availability on that sector?

I could not get this routing to price on Matrix, just Google Flights.
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Old Jul 19, 2023, 7:13 pm
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You have found flights using the fare code PNCCA. That first screenshot from ITA Matrix. Each flight is $1414.56. It doesn't total $2829 because of the taxes and that $799 carrier imposed charge.

Here's another example -



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Old Jul 19, 2023, 7:36 pm
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Originally Posted by cruser1
You have found flights using the fare code PNCCA. That first screenshot from ITA Matrix. Each flight is $1414.56. It doesn't total $2829 because of the taxes and that $799 carrier imposed charge.
Of course! I saw the YQ but didn't do the (simple) math.
Now, to drop that YQ...

But why does the fare show up as 3834.00(USD) for LX? Do they put in the surcharges in the fare for LX but not LH?
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Old Jul 19, 2023, 10:08 pm
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Originally Posted by JALsnipe
Of course! I saw the YQ but didn't do the (simple) math.
Now, to drop that YQ...

But why does the fare show up as 3834.00(USD) for LX? Do they put in the surcharges in the fare for LX but not LH?
It depends where you connect. Every time you land in another country you have to pay taxes to that country. The itinerary you posted with three connections in each direction is more expensive because you're paying additional taxes to South Korea and France. Not sure if taxes to land in Germany are higher or lower than Switzerland, but that could cause a difference too. If you really want to see that price jump, try to see if you can get a connection in the UK.
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Old Jul 20, 2023, 6:44 am
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I’m not familiar with the HEL o/w fare you speak of. I played around on Matrix and GF trying to find something, to no avail. Could you enlighten me?
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Old Jul 20, 2023, 7:24 am
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Originally Posted by cruser1
It depends where you connect. Every time you land in another country you have to pay taxes to that country. The itinerary you posted with three connections in each direction is more expensive because you're paying additional taxes to South Korea and France. Not sure if taxes to land in Germany are higher or lower than Switzerland, but that could cause a difference too. If you really want to see that price jump, try to see if you can get a connection in the UK.
I guess what I'm asking is why does the fare show up as $2833 for LH and $3839 for LX?


Code:
Fare Basis Airline Booking Class Trip Type Fare Cabin Effective Date Expiration Date Min / Max Stay Adv Purchase Req
PNCCA LH P Round-Trip 2833.00(USD) B 06 / 12M
PNCCA LX P Round-Trip 3839.00(USD) B 06 / 12M

Is what we're seeing here the LH fare the whole time + YQ? Am I just misunderstanding the taxes and fees?


Originally Posted by stratofortress
I’m not familiar with the HEL o/w fare you speak of. I played around on Matrix and GF trying to find something, to no avail. Could you enlighten me?
It's the BA/Finair oneworld fare through Helsinki that pops up periodically from North America to Tokyo. Usually seen from JFK but here's one from Montreal:
https://www.google.com/travel/flight...UHhJRQQ4X2WBy6
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Old Jul 20, 2023, 8:08 am
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Originally Posted by JALsnipe
I guess what I'm asking is why does the fare show up as $2833 for LH and $3839 for LX?
Not sure why EF is displaying different amounts, but the answer here is simply that there is an LX (and OS) fare filed, for the same amount.
These are constructed fares, based on YTO-TYO (same price).



Originally Posted by JALsnipe
Is what we're seeing here the LH fare the whole time + YQ? Am I just misunderstanding the taxes and fees?
No, when matrix displays "Fare 1: Carrier LX PNCCA..." the "Carrier LX" part means you are using an LX fare. You were previously correct that taxes and fees have nothing to do with this.
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Old Jul 21, 2023, 12:54 pm
  #10  
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Originally Posted by PLeblond
That second one looks like fun!

Edit: OH wait... The first TATL part is in PY... a little less fun.
FYI - just checked Ovago and it's pricing with business on YUL-MUC:

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Old Jul 21, 2023, 1:23 pm
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Originally Posted by JALsnipe
FYI - just checked Ovago and it's pricing with business on YUL-MUC:
You should be able to get it in business.

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Old Jul 22, 2023, 4:37 pm
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P/ZNCCA are two good fare rules with the only problem being that you have to have 0 stopovers. However, you can add side trips so it is a plus to that.

Was able to book in P and return in Z for the Christmas mileage run for my AC SQDs...

It can be used to issue in UA/AC TKT which could be a good deal for NA-based flyers.
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Old Jul 23, 2023, 11:16 am
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Originally Posted by EroSkulled
P/ZNCCA are two good fare rules with the only problem being that you have to have 0 stopovers. However, you can add side trips so it is a plus to that.
Do you have any good examples of side trips that can be combined with this routing? Curious how to take advantage of that with this fare. Do you need P on the side trip segments?
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Old Jul 23, 2023, 11:33 am
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Originally Posted by JALsnipe
Do you have any good examples of side trips that can be combined with this routing? Curious how to take advantage of that with this fare. Do you need P on the side trip segments?
For example you can insert a side trip in between your transfer at MUC/FRA for LH fare, could be MUC-CPH-MUC. Side strips are calculated at extra using separate fare rules. E.g. prem eco fare Class G with GXXXXX. Thx tax could also be different as well as YQ
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Old Jul 24, 2023, 7:04 am
  #15  
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Originally Posted by EroSkulled
For example you can insert a side trip in between your transfer at MUC/FRA for LH fare, could be MUC-CPH-MUC. Side strips are calculated at extra using separate fare rules. E.g. prem eco fare Class G with GXXXXX. Thx tax could also be different as well as YQ
Thank you, I get that but I'm having trouble pricing it out in practice. Let me give you an example:

I have priced out the following fare on LX



I am trying to insert a side trip between ZRH and NRT to FRA like this but am getting no flights found (even when forcing flight numbers)


Does the side trip need to keep the same restrictions as the original fare class (eg: no stopovers but transfers for stays <24 hours permitted)? Is there some kind of combinability issue with the fare/route that I've selected?
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