maxvor

In fact I've tried it with nufnuf77 and even for him it was extremely difficult to find something bookable even with decent amount of flexibility in my requests.

PLeblond

Ouch... and here I was thinking he was a miracle worker.

NJSwamplands

f0zzyNUE

Isn't point of commencement equal to point of sales when both are the same country?

FrankTalk

Yes it is the only and sole reason. The quote above is a testament to both lack of tools and lack of understanding, really.

The problem comes at you in two ways, even though it's the very same issue (which is LHG married segment logic): first if you look at (in this example) AMS-SYD it will almost always be zero because LH doesn't really want to sell you that route, not with non LHG carriers like SQ and definitely not with non-alliance carriers (say QF SFO-SYD). Ok, so you say you could book multi-city, right? Not really. You select AMS-SIN + SIN-SYD, you add SYD-SIN then because of the connecting SQ segment the LH return will be once again all zeroes to AMS (or FRA, wherever really). This, however, is far from being an insurmountable difficulty when booking directly with a TA.

Obviously there could be another reason which is general lack of First space on certain flights but barring that it is absolutely available and bookable.

maxvor

He is, he did help me to book a few of those in the end. The issue is that in the end I couldn't quite find a pattern between what was bookable and what I saw in EF, so reproducing it for new tickets is pretty tricky.

maxvor

My statement was about finding availability and generally booking online. There are a few issues with what you wrote above:
* It's not as simple as finding AMS-SYD in A as AMS-FRA/ZRH segment books into J, so it's logical that one cannot find A all the way
* With your example of QF SFO-SYD you are in fact mixing two fares, even if with same fare basis. In fact using routing via pacific I was able even to book it online, as opposed to routing via eastern hemisphere.

I did figure out in which cases one won't be able to book it for sure based on availability in EF. But better question (and since you seem to have explored this fare, maybe you can give an idea) is how to say what/when it IS bookable. There are just too many things at play here that my mind cannot wrap around:
* sometimes one can book into LH-codeshare operated by SQ even if EF says there is no availability on AMS-SIN
* it does SEEM that one cannot use LX codeshare operated by SQ on ZRH-SIN, while LH-codeshare on FRA-SIN seems ok
* in the past it was possible to route it via PVG and HKG, while it doesn't seem to be the case anymore, even if nothing changed in routing rules (availability always was and still is next to none)

FrankTalk

My statement was about why you can't do that online, yea?

There are a few issues with what you wrote above.

This is a given, never claimed otherwise so please stop swinging this factoid around - only said LH zeroes out availability for connections with non LHG (and sometimes with LHG as well) for rev management purposes.

It is actually the exact same fare that happens to allow pacific and atlantic routings both, in case you missed the point of the whole thread.

You can't book it online if the return is not available all the way from the departure to the destination, all married.

Can't comment on your questions; since stopovers are no longer allowed on these the value for me is nil and thus I did not look into it beyond whether it's bookable or not (as per today's thread title that got merged here).

Maybe if you posted a routing rule that allows (heck, even allowed, past tense) connecting though PVG and HKG...

maxvor

I told you one can, but only with routing over pacific. Which of course your all bla-bla-bla doesn't explain.

Apparently they don't do it thoroughly enough as I had 2 of those booked post-stopover removal

So you didn't study it / didn't try to book any of it (online or via TA), yet you are making all those statements to someone who spent many hours on it, discussed it with two separate TAs and booked a few successfully? It shows as some statements you are making are just incorrect.

I think I'll stop here as this conversation is not particularly useful to help others book it, as you are not revealing some magical tricks to easily overcome it:
​​​​​​

FrankTalk

Well, oh my, good on ya! Congrats for booking a bookable fare online! Again you're trying to put words in my mouth, I never said LHG always blocks married availability, just that they block it due to inventory management reasons. If you don't understand this it isn't my problem, I hope.

You're not paying attention (again). I said "beyond whether it's bookable or not". This implies I verified it is bookable; what's more I verified it based on FunkySpike's dates (iirc return had to be pushed back a few days due to lack of availability, maybe to Feb 13?). Any beginner TA can figure out how to book it on their end, just have to pick dates with availability on the flights. There's no magic in it (again, swinging around big words).

maxvor

Well, maybe you can explain it then, how exactly it would be bookable based on that? Or maybe I'm (again) not paying attention to your explanations?

FrankTalk

This is perhaps the first thing you've said today that I can get behind. Right now Jan 20 is no longer possible but Jan 25 is on Lufthansa to FRA and Singapore Air from there. About the how: as we've established you haven't been paying attention; so why don't you just go back and re-read everything I wrote, this time carefully?

SourSweetTea

The issue I'm saying here is for return trip or stopovers. Just an example, AMS - FRA - SIN - SYD and SYD - SIN - FRA - AMS with stopover at first SIN. POC for availability searches of either SIN - SYD or SYD - SIN - FRA - AMS should be AMS. As far as I know, Expert Flyer doesn't support such availability search with correct and compliant POC.

Funky Spike

Anyway........

I went ahead and booked:

AMS-ZRH LX J
ZRH-HKG LX F
HKG-SYD CX J
SYD-SIN SQ F (Suites)
SIN-FRA LH F
FRA-AMS LH J

HND on the outbound was also possible with HND-SYD on ANA.

Paid 5200EUR, around 4500GBP.
Cheapest QR deals to SYD have been around 3500GBP in J from AGP. The long way round on AA from BUD the same price, although a whole load of TPs.
CX J from AMS is around 3800GBP.

Looking forward to trying some new (to me) airlines and sit it the nose of a 747 again.

Spike

luchtschip

Since this is a codeshare LH fare, would you still get Private Room access on the SQ first legs (on departure or arrival). Sorry if this is the wrong forum