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Star Alliance: CDG-North America-Auckland-Asia-CDG 2735 biz

Star Alliance: CDG-North America-Auckland-Asia-CDG 2735 biz

Old Apr 26, 2024, 8:19 am
  #646  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: AMS
Posts: 589
In fact I've tried it with nufnuf77 and even for him it was extremely difficult to find something bookable even with decent amount of flexibility in my requests.
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Old Apr 26, 2024, 8:45 am
  #647  
Formerly known as tireman77
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 5,765
Originally Posted by maxvor
In fact I've tried it with nufnuf77 and even for him it was extremely difficult to find something bookable even with decent amount of flexibility in my requests.
Ouch... and here I was thinking he was a miracle worker.
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Old Apr 26, 2024, 8:54 am
  #648  
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 536
Originally Posted by PLeblond
Ouch... and here I was thinking he was a miracle worker.
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Old Apr 26, 2024, 9:18 am
  #649  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
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Originally Posted by SourSweetTea
Availability depends on both Point of Sales and Point of Commencement, and the later is not possible to switch on ExpertFlyer
Isn't point of commencement equal to point of sales when both are the same country?
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Old Apr 26, 2024, 9:32 am
  #650  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Programs: M&M
Posts: 997
Originally Posted by maxvor
​​​​​​That is not the only reason, if it was, one could book it online at least on some very limited dates, which was not the case no matter how I tried. One literally need to put it segment by segment, and it's not even clear how to look up availability for that fare even in EF other than trial-and-error
Yes it is the only and sole reason. The quote above is a testament to both lack of tools and lack of understanding, really.

The problem comes at you in two ways, even though it's the very same issue (which is LHG married segment logic): first if you look at (in this example) AMS-SYD it will almost always be zero because LH doesn't really want to sell you that route, not with non LHG carriers like SQ and definitely not with non-alliance carriers (say QF SFO-SYD). Ok, so you say you could book multi-city, right? Not really. You select AMS-SIN + SIN-SYD, you add SYD-SIN then because of the connecting SQ segment the LH return will be once again all zeroes to AMS (or FRA, wherever really). This, however, is far from being an insurmountable difficulty when booking directly with a TA.

Obviously there could be another reason which is general lack of First space on certain flights but barring that it is absolutely available and bookable.

Last edited by FrankTalk; Apr 26, 2024 at 9:38 am
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Old Apr 26, 2024, 11:59 am
  #651  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: AMS
Posts: 589
Originally Posted by PLeblond
Ouch... and here I was thinking he was a miracle worker.
He is, he did help me to book a few of those in the end. The issue is that in the end I couldn't quite find a pattern between what was bookable and what I saw in EF, so reproducing it for new tickets is pretty tricky.
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Old Apr 26, 2024, 12:14 pm
  #652  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: AMS
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Originally Posted by FrankTalk
Yes it is the only and sole reason. The quote above is a testament to both lack of tools and lack of understanding, really.

The problem comes at you in two ways, even though it's the very same issue (which is LHG married segment logic): first if you look at (in this example) AMS-SYD it will almost always be zero because LH doesn't really want to sell you that route, not with non LHG carriers like SQ and definitely not with non-alliance carriers (say QF SFO-SYD). Ok, so you say you could book multi-city, right? Not really. You select AMS-SIN + SIN-SYD, you add SYD-SIN then because of the connecting SQ segment the LH return will be once again all zeroes to AMS (or FRA, wherever really). This, however, is far from being an insurmountable difficulty when booking directly with a TA.

Obviously there could be another reason which is general lack of First space on certain flights but barring that it is absolutely available and bookable.
My statement was about finding availability and generally booking online. There are a few issues with what you wrote above:
* It's not as simple as finding AMS-SYD in A as AMS-FRA/ZRH segment books into J, so it's logical that one cannot find A all the way
* With your example of QF SFO-SYD you are in fact mixing two fares, even if with same fare basis. In fact using routing via pacific I was able even to book it online, as opposed to routing via eastern hemisphere.

I did figure out in which cases one won't be able to book it for sure based on availability in EF. But better question (and since you seem to have explored this fare, maybe you can give an idea) is how to say what/when it IS bookable. There are just too many things at play here that my mind cannot wrap around:
* sometimes one can book into LH-codeshare operated by SQ even if EF says there is no availability on AMS-SIN
* it does SEEM that one cannot use LX codeshare operated by SQ on ZRH-SIN, while LH-codeshare on FRA-SIN seems ok
* in the past it was possible to route it via PVG and HKG, while it doesn't seem to be the case anymore, even if nothing changed in routing rules (availability always was and still is next to none)
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Old Apr 26, 2024, 1:30 pm
  #653  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Originally Posted by maxvor
My statement was about finding availability and generally booking online.
My statement was about why you can't do that online, yea?

Originally Posted by maxvor
There are a few issues with what you wrote above:
There are a few issues with what you wrote above.

Originally Posted by maxvor
* It's not as simple as finding AMS-SYD in A as AMS-FRA/ZRH segment books into J, so it's logical that one cannot find A all the way
This is a given, never claimed otherwise so please stop swinging this factoid around - only said LH zeroes out availability for connections with non LHG (and sometimes with LHG as well) for rev management purposes.

Originally Posted by maxvor
* With your example of QF SFO-SYD you are in fact mixing two fares, even if with same fare basis. In fact using routing via pacific I was able even to book it online, as opposed to routing via eastern hemisphere.
It is actually the exact same fare that happens to allow pacific and atlantic routings both, in case you missed the point of the whole thread.

Originally Posted by maxvor
I did figure out in which cases one won't be able to book it for sure based on availability in EF.
You can't book it online if the return is not available all the way from the departure to the destination, all married.

Can't comment on your questions; since stopovers are no longer allowed on these the value for me is nil and thus I did not look into it beyond whether it's bookable or not (as per today's thread title that got merged here).

Originally Posted by maxvor
* in the past it was possible to route it via PVG and HKG, while it doesn't seem to be the case anymore, even if nothing changed in routing rules (availability always was and still is next to none)
Maybe if you posted a routing rule that allows (heck, even allowed, past tense) connecting though PVG and HKG...
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Old Apr 26, 2024, 2:40 pm
  #654  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: AMS
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Originally Posted by FrankTalk
My statement was about why you can't do that online, yea?
I told you one can, but only with routing over pacific. Which of course your all bla-bla-bla doesn't explain.

Originally Posted by FrankTalk
This is a given, never claimed otherwise so please stop swinging this factoid around - only said LH zeroes out availability for connections with non LHG (and sometimes with LHG as well) for rev management purposes.
Apparently they don't do it thoroughly enough as I had 2 of those booked post-stopover removal

Originally Posted by FrankTalk
Can't comment on your questions; since stopovers are no longer allowed on these the value for me is nil and thus I did not look into it beyond whether it's bookable or not (as per today's thread title that got merged here).
So you didn't study it / didn't try to book any of it (online or via TA), yet you are making all those statements to someone who spent many hours on it, discussed it with two separate TAs and booked a few successfully? It shows as some statements you are making are just incorrect.

I think I'll stop here as this conversation is not particularly useful to help others book it, as you are not revealing some magical tricks to easily overcome it:
Originally Posted by FrankTalk
This, however, is far from being an insurmountable difficulty when booking directly with a TA.
​​​​​​
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Old Apr 26, 2024, 2:49 pm
  #655  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
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Originally Posted by maxvor
...but only with routing over pacific. Which of course your all bla-bla-bla doesn't explain.
Well, oh my, good on ya! Congrats for booking a bookable fare online! Again you're trying to put words in my mouth, I never said LHG always blocks married availability, just that they block it due to inventory management reasons. If you don't understand this it isn't my problem, I hope.

Originally Posted by maxvor
So you didn't study it / didn't try to book any of it (online or via TA), yet you are making all those statements to someone who spent many hours on it, discussed it with two separate TAs and booked a few successfully? It shows as some statements you are making are just incorrect.
You're not paying attention (again). I said "beyond whether it's bookable or not". This implies I verified it is bookable; what's more I verified it based on FunkySpike's dates (iirc return had to be pushed back a few days due to lack of availability, maybe to Feb 13?). Any beginner TA can figure out how to book it on their end, just have to pick dates with availability on the flights. There's no magic in it (again, swinging around big words).
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Old Apr 26, 2024, 3:37 pm
  #656  
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: AMS
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Originally Posted by FrankTalk
You're not paying attention (again). I said "beyond whether it's bookable or not". This implies I verified it is bookable; what's more I verified it based on FunkySpike's dates (iirc return had to be pushed back a few days due to lack of availability, maybe to Feb 13?). Any beginner TA can figure out how to book it on their end, just have to pick dates with availability on the flights. There's no magic in it (again, swinging around big words).
Well, maybe you can explain it then, how exactly it would be bookable based on that? Or maybe I'm (again) not paying attention to your explanations?
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Old Apr 26, 2024, 5:16 pm
  #657  
 
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Originally Posted by maxvor
maybe I'm (again) not paying attention
This is perhaps the first thing you've said today that I can get behind. Right now Jan 20 is no longer possible but Jan 25 is on Lufthansa to FRA and Singapore Air from there. About the how: as we've established you haven't been paying attention; so why don't you just go back and re-read everything I wrote, this time carefully?
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Old Apr 26, 2024, 6:37 pm
  #658  
 
Join Date: Dec 2021
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Originally Posted by maxvor
I'm not a TA myself and happy to be corrected, but, while I can imagine some semi-compliant reasons to change PoS, changing PoC to be anything but origin country does strike me as ticketing violation, even if technically possible. Would be surprised if any TA would agree to do it consciously.
Originally Posted by f0zzyNUE
Isn't point of commencement equal to point of sales when both are the same country?
The issue I'm saying here is for return trip or stopovers. Just an example, AMS - FRA - SIN - SYD and SYD - SIN - FRA - AMS with stopover at first SIN. POC for availability searches of either SIN - SYD or SYD - SIN - FRA - AMS should be AMS. As far as I know, Expert Flyer doesn't support such availability search with correct and compliant POC.
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Old Apr 26, 2024, 7:34 pm
  #659  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
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Anyway........

I went ahead and booked:

AMS-ZRH LX J
ZRH-HKG LX F
HKG-SYD CX J
SYD-SIN SQ F (Suites)
SIN-FRA LH F
FRA-AMS LH J

HND on the outbound was also possible with HND-SYD on ANA.

Paid 5200EUR, around 4500GBP.
Cheapest QR deals to SYD have been around 3500GBP in J from AGP. The long way round on AA from BUD the same price, although a whole load of TPs.
CX J from AMS is around 3800GBP.

Looking forward to trying some new (to me) airlines and sit it the nose of a 747 again.

Spike
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Old Jun 5, 2024, 9:18 am
  #660  
 
Join Date: May 2024
Location: AMS/BRU
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue, BA Executive Club
Posts: 7
Since this is a codeshare LH fare, would you still get Private Room access on the SQ first legs (on departure or arrival). Sorry if this is the wrong forum
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