Leave your electronics at home?

Old Sep 9, 09, 7:13 pm
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Ohio
Programs: PC Plat, HH Diamond, *wood Gold, United Silver, DL Plat, IC Gold, Hertz. #1, AMX Plat
Posts: 167
Leave your electronics at home?

http://www.news10.net/news/local/sto...=66559&catid=2
mscoachung is offline  
Old Sep 10, 09, 5:05 am
  #2  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: MIA
Programs: PC Plat/Amb
Posts: 1,152
"I don't carry my laptop overseas anymore," said Sacramento attorney Mark Reichel. "The fat lady has sung for the fourth amendment."

Maybe he should have studied harder in law school. Nothing has changed with regards to border searches. Legally, what is the difference between personal papers, luggage and laptops? The 4th Amendment covers all equally.
We Will Never Forget is offline  
Old Sep 10, 09, 5:14 am
  #3  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,726
Originally Posted by We Will Never Forget View Post
"I don't carry my laptop overseas anymore," said Sacramento attorney Mark Reichel. "The fat lady has sung for the fourth amendment."

Maybe he should have studied harder in law school. Nothing has changed with regards to border searches. Legally, what is the difference between personal papers, luggage and laptops? The 4th Amendment covers all equally.
Put down the glass and step away from the Kool-Aid.
n4zhg is offline  
Old Sep 10, 09, 5:52 am
  #4  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: SJC, SFO, YYC
Programs: AA-EXP, AA-0.41MM, UA-Gold, Ex UA-1K (2006 thru 2015), PMUA-0.95MM, COUA-1.5MM-lite, AF-Silver
Posts: 13,437
Originally Posted by We Will Never Forget View Post
"I don't carry my laptop overseas anymore," said Sacramento attorney Mark Reichel. "The fat lady has sung for the fourth amendment."

Maybe he should have studied harder in law school. Nothing has changed with regards to border searches. Legally, what is the difference between personal papers, luggage and laptops? The 4th Amendment covers all equally.
"Officers may not read or permit others to read correspondence contained in sealed letter class mail"

The difference between encrypted data on a laptop and sealed first class mail is?
mre5765 is offline  
Old Sep 10, 09, 6:41 am
  #5  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Miami, FL
Programs: AA EXP/Marriott Plat/Hertz PC
Posts: 12,724
I think that CBP needs to be slapped back to into their role of preventing physical contraband from entering the country.
whirledtraveler is offline  
Old Sep 10, 09, 10:00 am
  #6  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: BWI
Programs: UA Plat, AA Plat, Hyatt Diamond, PC Plat, HH Diamond, National Exec Elite
Posts: 129
Originally Posted by mre5765 View Post
"Officers may not read or permit others to read correspondence contained in sealed letter class mail"

The difference between encrypted data on a laptop and sealed first class mail is?
If sealed mail means it can't be copied, travel with a stamped/addressed envelope and just get a laptop with a removable drive. Pop the drive in the envelope and seal it before entering the TSA area.
applezz13 is offline  
Old Sep 10, 09, 11:53 am
  #7  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: North of DFW
Programs: AA PLT, HH Gold, TSA Disparager Gold, going for Platnium
Posts: 1,533
Gee why am I not suprised. The 911 excuse is getting abused and used as a vechile to strip the rights of US citizens and travelers, but why am i not suprised since the US is no longer home of the free, but looking more and more 3rd world home of the scared.

CBP can search my laptop and all of the drives they want but there encrypted, but if you dont know where to look and have the passwords your not going to see whats really on the drive. That and the moment they begin to initiate the search I will get their infomation so that i can pass it on to the organization I do research for so that they can send there legal team(HIPPA violation) after that person and who they work for as HIPPA has more teeth and bite then CBP, not to mention all the research partcipants could seek recourse for attempted ID theft.
Scubatooth is offline  
Old Sep 10, 09, 12:03 pm
  #8  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: MSP
Programs: SPG Gold;NWA gold;Hyatt Plat
Posts: 1,458
Originally Posted by applezz13 View Post
If sealed mail means it can't be copied, travel with a stamped/addressed envelope and just get a laptop with a removable drive. Pop the drive in the envelope and seal it before entering the TSA area.
A) its CBP, not TSA
b) Its first class letter mail. A hard drive would not be letter mail.
goaliemn is offline  
Old Sep 10, 09, 12:04 pm
  #9  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: MSP
Programs: SPG Gold;NWA gold;Hyatt Plat
Posts: 1,458
Originally Posted by Scubatooth View Post
Gee why am I not suprised. The 911 excuse is getting abused and used as a vechile to strip the rights of US citizens and travelers, but why am i not suprised since the US is no longer home of the free, but looking more and more 3rd world home of the scared.
this is not new.. its becoming more common as more people travel with laptops.. I don't think 911 has ever been invoked for border laptop searches..
That and the moment they begin to initiate the search I will get their infomation so that i can pass it on to the organization I do research for so that they can send there legal team(HIPPA violation) after that person and who they work for as HIPPA has more teeth and bite then CBP, not to mention all the research partcipants could seek recourse for attempted ID theft.
Good luck on that.
goaliemn is offline  
Old Sep 10, 09, 12:11 pm
  #10  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 2,960
How do you figure a CBP agent is violating HIPAA for searching items which contain PHI?

CBP is not a covered entity under HIPAA. Hence there is no enforcement action that can be taken against them by the Department of Health Services Office of Civil Rights (the "HIPAA Police").

If anything, HIPAA may enter into the equation for the owner of the laptop through inadvertent disclosure of any unencrypted PHI. Now whether or not the laptop owner can legally refuse a request by CBP to see the content of a file (electronic or paper) that contains PHI by citing HIPAA privacy/security regulations is something I'd need to research. I seem to remember some kind of exception buried in the regs regarding national security (figures!) but it has been awhile since I've waded through the HIPAA swamp.
El Cochinito is offline  
Old Sep 10, 09, 12:16 pm
  #11  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: North of DFW
Programs: AA PLT, HH Gold, TSA Disparager Gold, going for Platnium
Posts: 1,533
It happened to another researcher and the search stopped right there because the CBP official realized that it was more of a hassle/legal trouble then its worth. There is a very large HIPPA notification (with the penalties for violation) on the splash screen and the background on the laptop so its very obvious, to prevent "I never saw XYZ" syndrome.

Beyond that truecrypt will keep them at bay.
Scubatooth is offline  
Old Sep 10, 09, 3:16 pm
  #12  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: MIA
Programs: PC Plat/Amb
Posts: 1,152
Originally Posted by mre5765 View Post
"Officers may not read or permit others to read correspondence contained in sealed letter class mail"

The difference between encrypted data on a laptop and sealed first class mail is?
The actual policy:

Sealed Letter Class Mail. Officers may not read or permit others to read correspondence contained in sealed letter class mail (the international equivalent of First Class) without an appropriate search warrant or consent. Only articles in the postal system are deemed "mail." Letters carried by individuals or private carriers such as DHL, UPS, or Federal Express, for example, are not considered to be mail, even if they are stamped, and thus are subject to a border search as provided in this policy.

Policy Regarding Border Search of Information
We Will Never Forget is offline  
Old Sep 10, 09, 5:21 pm
  #13  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,726
Originally Posted by whirledtraveler View Post
I think that CBP needs to be slapped back to into their role of preventing physical contraband from entering the country.
A slap isn't going to do it. I'm not sure an enema with fifteen molar battery acid would get the message across.
n4zhg is offline  
Old Sep 10, 09, 5:57 pm
  #14  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: MIA
Programs: PC Plat/Amb
Posts: 1,152
Originally Posted by whirledtraveler View Post
I think that CBP needs to be slapped back to into their role of preventing physical contraband from entering the country.
ICE had 4 arrests within the last week or so for people traveling to Cambodia for the purpose of molesting children. This tends to make me think there is a bunch of kiddie porn being brought in. I'm not saying that anyone should gleefully give up their rights, but personally, I'd let them search my computer if I knew eventually some of these sick .......s were going to jail. That's just me.
We Will Never Forget is offline  
Old Sep 10, 09, 6:09 pm
  #15  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Upstate NY or FL or inbetween
Programs: US former CP Looking for a new airline to love me
Posts: 1,625
Originally Posted by We Will Never Forget View Post
ICE had 4 arrests within the last week or so for people traveling to Cambodia for the purpose of molesting children. This tends to make me think there is a bunch of kiddie porn being brought in. I'm not saying that anyone should gleefully give up their rights, but personally, I'd let them search my computer if I knew eventually some of these sick .......s were going to jail. That's just me.
But what permits you to determine that I need to give up my 4th amendment rights and my right to privacy?
NY-FLA is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search Engine: