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Surviving Disaster - Hijacking

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Old Sep 3, 2009 | 2:41 pm
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Surviving Disaster - Hijacking

So who saw this episode? Every week they do a disaster and what one needs to survive it. Last week's was hijacking. An ex-SEAL does the commentary.

It was overly dramatic, I thought, but interesting. It highlighted the need for planning and cooperation in a hijacking, which will, in my estimation, be the thing most likely attacked by a hijacking crew. They too learned lessons from 9/11 and this was one of the most important.
http://www.spike.com/full-episode/hijack/33542

Last edited by law dawg; Sep 3, 2009 at 2:58 pm Reason: added link
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Old Sep 3, 2009 | 7:27 pm
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Disappointing episode. For the sake of having a full-length episode, they espoused and encouraged the "Flight 93" model: initial compliance with the hijackers, and then an eventual re-taking of the aircraft.

I'd think that "no compliance, ever" and "immediately attack" would be more useful and realistic advice. Then again, that only works if people have an immediate visceral sense that getting hijacked is already a death sentence. The show was probably accurate in depicting the realization as being gradual, rather than immediate.

In any case, the final two-thirds of the episode was pure filler. I particularly liked how the FA's actually had to be "instructed" by the superhero-pax as to their duties during an emergency evacuation.
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Old Sep 3, 2009 | 8:08 pm
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I'll be interested when the episode is Surving Disaster - TSA.
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Old Sep 3, 2009 | 8:25 pm
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Originally Posted by Self_Loading_Ballast
Disappointing episode. For the sake of having a full-length episode, they espoused and encouraged the "Flight 93" model: initial compliance with the hijackers, and then an eventual re-taking of the aircraft.

I'd think that "no compliance, ever" and "immediately attack" would be more useful and realistic advice. Then again, that only works if people have an immediate visceral sense that getting hijacked is already a death sentence. The show was probably accurate in depicting the realization as being gradual, rather than immediate.

In any case, the final two-thirds of the episode was pure filler. I particularly liked how the FA's actually had to be "instructed" by the superhero-pax as to their duties during an emergency evacuation.
Agreed on pretty much all your points.
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Old Sep 3, 2009 | 8:28 pm
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I haven't seen the show but I think it depends on what the hijackers want.

So long as they are content to give orders but not enter the flight deck the old rules should apply--give them what they want. If they try to force their way onto the flight deck, though, attack at once. You don't want them to get the controls and you also want to protect the pilots--if you lose them you had better hope someone on board can figure out the radio.
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Old Sep 3, 2009 | 10:31 pm
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Originally Posted by Self_Loading_Ballast
Disappointing episode. For the sake of having a full-length episode, they espoused and encouraged the "Flight 93" model: initial compliance with the hijackers, and then an eventual re-taking of the aircraft.
I was channel surfing in my hotel a while ago and just caught the last ~30 minutes by chance, right when they hog tied a bad guy on the floor. I was wondering how the hijackers got behind a locked cockpit door. I figured they rushed the door when a pilot was taking a potty break, so it’s disappointing to now hear there was compliance, but then that’s entertainment.
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Old Sep 4, 2009 | 3:38 pm
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Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel
I haven't seen the show but I think it depends on what the hijackers want.

So long as they are content to give orders but not enter the flight deck the old rules should apply--give them what they want. If they try to force their way onto the flight deck, though, attack at once. You don't want them to get the controls and you also want to protect the pilots--if you lose them you had better hope someone on board can figure out the radio.
In this episode the hijackers rushed the door (batting aside the FAs) when they were serving food, slamming the door on their way in. Essentially, the hijackers were in the door before almost anyone knew what was happening.

The problem with your "at once" is that if you jump up to go to work, you'd better hope some other people do so right there with you. Not 10 seconds later, not a minute later - right then. Because if you jump up alone in a hijacking you're easy meat.

I do agree with your assessment, though, reservations aside. It's just my experience that most people can't go from resting to killing in the snap of the fingers.
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Old Sep 4, 2009 | 4:45 pm
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Originally Posted by law dawg
... It's just my experience that most people can't go from resting to killing in the snap of the fingers.
Including a lot of trained LEOs and military.
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Old Sep 4, 2009 | 5:23 pm
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Originally Posted by abmj-jr
Including a lot of trained LEOs and military.
True, but a lot of LEO and military training attempts to instill this very behavior. It's never a sure thing, but I'd rather have the training than not.
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Old Sep 5, 2009 | 8:02 am
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They kind of "helped" the scenario along by not having a cart in front of the cockpit door, other than that, pretty legitimate.
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Old Sep 6, 2009 | 8:31 am
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I am watching this show right now. They have disabled all the hijackers except the one in the cockpit.

They are showing how to restrain the hijackers. One observation, dead men give you no troubles. Kill your captured hijackers. Ta-da.

Ok this show is about to aggravate me.

EDIT: I could not take it anymore, changed the channel.

Last edited by Trollkiller; Sep 6, 2009 at 8:52 am
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Old Sep 6, 2009 | 11:17 am
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Originally Posted by Trollkiller
They are showing how to restrain the hijackers. One observation, dead men give you no troubles. Kill your captured hijackers. Ta-da.
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats."

H. L. Mencken

Your life or his life? Desperate times may call for desperate actions. Gives me pause to think. Could I? Would I? You?
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Old Sep 6, 2009 | 11:40 am
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Originally Posted by Good Guy
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats."

H. L. Mencken

Your life or his life? Desperate times may call for desperate actions. Gives me pause to think. Could I? Would I? You?
Could I? Yes. Would I? Yes.

After 9/11 we all understand what the end result of a hijacking that attempts to take over the cockpit.

If I am going to die either way I will die fighting. I have never been able to understand how a person can passively wait to die or follow orders from a captor when the end result will be death.

I watch a good amount of shows on history. When ever I see the clip of a man running to the edge of a pit so a SS agent can shoot him it boggles my mind every time.

To me not fighting a hijacker after 9/11 is the same thing and I simply can not wrap my head around it.

Last edited by Trollkiller; Sep 6, 2009 at 11:42 am Reason: typo
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Old Sep 6, 2009 | 12:01 pm
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Originally Posted by Trollkiller
Could I? Yes. Would I? Yes.

After 9/11 we all understand what the end result of a hijacking that attempts to take over the cockpit.

If I am going to die either way I will die fighting. I have never been able to understand how a person can passively wait to die or follow orders from a captor when the end result will be death.

I watch a good amount of shows on history. When ever I see the clip of a man running to the edge of a pit so a SS agent can shoot him it boggles my mind every time.

To me not fighting a hijacker after 9/11 is the same thing and I simply can not wrap my head around it.
^
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Old Sep 6, 2009 | 12:22 pm
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I watched for a little while, but found it over dramatized, ended up changing the channel before they attempted to clear the cockpit of the hijackers
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