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-   Practical Travel Safety and Security Issues (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues-686/)
-   -   was this TSA guy a jerk? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/975976-tsa-guy-jerk.html)

Top Tier Jul 18, 2009 2:06 pm


Originally Posted by Dan_E (Post 12084217)
Damn civilians

Sadly, this comment speaks volumes about the attitude many in law enforcement hold toward the public they "serve".


Originally Posted by Dan_E (Post 12084217)
no respect for authority.

The most egregious examples of disrespect for authority occur when those who are entrusted with it abuse it, or step outside it's bounds.

sard Jul 19, 2009 1:25 am


Originally Posted by thegeneral (Post 12084746)
Were you being a jerk for asking why in the first place? He's allowed to see your boarding pass so he can easily find out where you're going. Why bother picking a fight. Do you have that little to do in the run of your week?

I dont think I was being a jerk for asking "Why"

And he didnt ask for my boarding pass the first time.

He came over to me and said "What flight are you on?"
I said "That one (pointed at the gate) going to NY, why?" (maybe theres a problem with the aircraft, they cancelled the flight, gate change, who knows)
He starts to walk away, so I ask "Why?" again.
He just looks and me and then walks away.

Then a few minutes later he comes over and asks for my boarding pass and id, which I then gave him.

Wally Bird Jul 19, 2009 8:32 am


Originally Posted by PTravel (Post 12085930)
The Fourth Amendment isn't suspended in the sterile area.

No it isn't, but the "reasonable" test still applies and courts have ruled that a search limited in scope to items posing a threat to aviation is reasonable. I don't recall any legal opinion which states that such searches must be conducted at only the first chechkpoint - the one demarcating the secure area. Maybe I missed it, but if there hasn't been such a ruling it's overdue.

It has been proposed more than once that the entire terminal, secure and "public", should be placed under the searchable domain. That it hasn't been done might be because the TSA realises it would be on shaky legal ground. And it must be really shaky, since stretching the envelope in such matters has never stopped them in the past.

PTravel Jul 19, 2009 10:37 am


Originally Posted by Wally Bird (Post 12088785)
No it isn't, but the "reasonable" test still applies and courts have ruled that a search limited in scope to items posing a threat to aviation is reasonable. I don't recall any legal opinion which states that such searches must be conducted at only the first chechkpoint - the one demarcating the secure area. Maybe I missed it, but if there hasn't been such a ruling it's overdue.

I told you -- this was my opinion and, further, I explained the reasons why. I also explained why no one ever has to answer a TSO's questions. Believe what you want.

Wally Bird Jul 19, 2009 11:08 am


Originally Posted by PTravel (Post 12089189)
I told you -- this was my opinion and, further, I explained the reasons why. I also explained why no one ever has to answer a TSO's questions. Believe what you want.

And I posted a different opinion. Is this Bash Wally Day or something ?

When it comes to the TSA I don't know what to believe; I'm looking for some sustainable legal guidance. I don't think there is any but I'd be delighted to receive evidence to the contrary. The only opinions that count are those which come from the bench.

Rover: "Where are you flying to ?"
Me: points to gate flight display
Rover: "Can I see your boarding pass ?"
Me: "No, but you can watch me hand it to the airline agent over there."

Good enough ?

PTravel Jul 19, 2009 11:34 am


Originally Posted by Wally Bird (Post 12089279)
And I posted a different opinion. Is this Bash Wally Day or something ?

No. However, I don't consider your view of what the courts have found vis-a-vis searches correct or complete. I have my opinion and you have yours.


When it comes to the TSA I don't know what to believe; I'm looking for some sustainable legal guidance.
Look to the Constitution for guidance.


I don't think there is any but I'd be delighted to receive evidence to the contrary. The only opinions that count are those which come from the bench.
The only opinions that are binding on TSA are court opinions.


Rover: "Where are you flying to ?"
Me: points to gate flight display
Rover: "Can I see your boarding pass ?"
Me: "No, but you can watch me hand it to the airline agent over there."

Good enough ?
Sure, I still prefer to not speak to TSOs at all in such circumstance.

Wally Bird Jul 19, 2009 3:45 pm


Originally Posted by PTravel (Post 12089356)
No. However, I don't consider your view of what the courts have found vis-a-vis searches correct or complete. I have my opinion and you have yours.

Look to the Constitution for guidance.

The only opinions that are binding on TSA are court opinions.

Sure, I still prefer to not speak to TSOs at all in such circumstance.

The Constitution is my guide, but since 9/11 (and to some extent before) it seems to have less and less applicability and force. Until in court; often not even then.

My disdain for the TSA is a strong as anyone's. Well, maybe not anyone :D and although I fly less every year I do indeed minimise my err... interactions with screeners. I've never been SPOTted or gate-accosted but I accept that if I take a position of non-cooperation there may be consequences.

Some people may have the time and (potentially) money to put it to the test; most simply want to waste as little of their time as possible in airports. If you're prepared to miss your flight by resisting the TSA's (probably illegal) persecution, more power to you. They count on the fact that most passengers are not and that's what emboldens the bullies and power-trippers on the floor and the HQ mandarins who dream up these schemes.

What's to be done ? I wish I knew.

bonoman Jul 19, 2009 5:15 pm

Are there any testimonials from someone refusing to submit to a gate check?

PHLflying Jul 19, 2009 5:17 pm

A few thoughts:

1- What flight are you on ?
"Oh, let me explain something to you, this is the boarding area. I'm not on a flight - flights take place on airplanes, like the one over there"

2 - Maybe he TSO was hoping he would say "I'm not on a flight, I bought a fully refundable ticket to get through the gate area and through it out". And then they would have their big catch ;)

knotyeagle Jul 19, 2009 5:19 pm


Originally Posted by bonoman (Post 12090374)
Are there any testimonials from someone refusing to submit to a gate check?

I asked the screener if he was planning on walking back to the checkpoint to do the private screening, he decided that screening me at the Sprit Airlines FLL-CUN gate was no longer necessary.

He went onto an easier mark.

NY-FLA Jul 20, 2009 6:16 am


Originally Posted by bonoman (Post 12090374)
Are there any testimonials from someone refusing to submit to a gate check?

Wouldn't call it a refusal, but about a month bsck st ROC went between the two smurfs posted at either side of the gate entrance, and when challenged, told 'em my BP and ID had been checked "back there". I meant at the check-point/entrance to the secure area. One gate groper thought I meant the other one, and as she was very concernedly checking with him, I sailed on past the UA GA, who saw exactly what was going on and smiled at me as he scanned my ticket and let me by.
Seems TSA (and McNeil at ROC) has no credibility with anyone any more, as they cast uselessly around, fumbling for something to give them a semblance of relevance.

erictank Jul 20, 2009 8:02 am


Originally Posted by Spiff (Post 12084619)
You won't mind if I come by and toss your house, eh? Or your car as you commute to work?

Do it BEFORE he commutes to work. Every day. JUST before he steps outside.

It must be okay - after all, he's got nothing to hide! :D

N231LA Jul 20, 2009 9:12 am


Originally Posted by bonoman (Post 12090374)
Are there any testimonials from someone refusing to submit to a gate check?

"Sure, you can check me...but be very careful, my colostomy bag is very full and about to overflow....and boy, does it stink today..."

doober Jul 20, 2009 10:59 am


Originally Posted by N231LA (Post 12093268)
"Sure, you can check me...but be very careful, my colostomy bag is very full and about to overflow....and boy, does it stink today..."

Oh, my stars, I do like that one! :D

PoliceStateSurvivor Jul 21, 2009 9:15 am


Originally Posted by ND Sol (Post 12084318)
Always love it when someone trots out the old I have nothing to hide argument. :rolleyes: I guess you won't mind me coming over tomorrow and searching your car and then the next day searching your house since you have nothing to hide and no expectation of privacy.

Here is how I explained this concept to my 16-yo daughter. I asked her two questions:

1. Would you like some Government agent to read a letter you may at some point in the future write to your boyfriend?

2. Would you like some Government agent to listen in on a phone conversation you have with your friends?

After getting an emphatic "No way!" to both questions, I said: "So, you have something to hide, dont't you?"

I think the point got across.


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