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-   -   Terrorist at the Gate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/974873-terrorist-gate.html)

DocDorfman Jul 13, 2009 11:03 pm

Terrorist at the Gate
 
I flew OAK - DEN on Sunday, and saw something I had not seen before. It was sort of a passive gate check - 5 TSA screeners stood in various corners of the gate and watched all the passengers, all the while making little "signals" to each other.

It was as if they were a special ops insertion team, sneaking up on the enemy, except it was as obvious as signs the catcher gives to the pitcher.

Stone faced, they stared at the passengers for any suspicious behavior, it was the most amateur effort at playing bounty hunter I could imagine. Two focused on the jetway gate, as if to assure nobody barged it, four stood in opposite corners and scanned the audience.

All wore gloves, and acted as if immediately ready to pounce on the terrorist. Except that immediately after calling the last boarding group, they responded as if the play was over and headed off as a group to the terminal - exactly like an actor might change personality when the scene was over.

Logistically I though it was interesting - unlike the gates, they had no LEO available to address escalating issues. They did not have radio's to call for an LEO and I imagine depend on one of the team to do such in another manner. And a single distraction would cause the house of cards to fall down.

Is this new or am I just noticing?

Trollkiller Jul 13, 2009 11:47 pm


Originally Posted by DocDorfman (Post 12062176)
I flew OAK - DEN on Sunday, and saw something I had not seen before. It was sort of a passive gate check - 5 TSA screeners stood in various corners of the gate and watched all the passengers, all the while making little "signals" to each other.

It was as if they were a special ops insertion team, sneaking up on the enemy, except it was as obvious as signs the catcher gives to the pitcher.

Stone faced, they stared at the passengers for any suspicious behavior, it was the most amateur effort at playing bounty hunter I could imagine. Two focused on the jetway gate, as if to assure nobody barged it, four stood in opposite corners and scanned the audience.

All wore gloves, and acted as if immediately ready to pounce on the terrorist. Except that immediately after calling the last boarding group, they responded as if the play was over and headed off as a group to the terminal - exactly like an actor might change personality when the scene was over.

Logistically I though it was interesting - unlike the gates, they had no LEO available to address escalating issues. They did not have radio's to call for an LEO and I imagine depend on one of the team to do such in another manner. And a single distraction would cause the house of cards to fall down.

Is this new or am I just noticing?

You should have yelled.... Bunt Bunt!!

goalie Jul 14, 2009 6:24 am


Originally Posted by Trollkiller (Post 12062324)
You should have yelled.... Bunt Bunt!!

^ :D

and look here for more on the attack of the gate raping blueshirts:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...rrrhhhggg.html

DocDorfman Jul 14, 2009 6:49 am


Originally Posted by goalie (Post 12063111)
^ :D

and look here for more on the attack of the gate raping blueshirts:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...rrrhhhggg.html

That's the thing - it wasn't a gate search, it was a gate stare-down.

They made no contact with the passengers while they were at the gate, they just made little finger jesters to each other and moved around the perimeter of the folks waiting.

Surveillance like behavior - except obvious as an elephant in the living room.

IslandBased Jul 14, 2009 6:57 am

It sounds like you didn't feel safer after the experience. I'm sure Bart or Ron will straighten you out.;)

NY-FLA Jul 14, 2009 7:10 am


Originally Posted by DocDorfman (Post 12063194)
....little finger jesters
...

Sounds like clowns at work. :D

Boggie Dog Jul 14, 2009 7:57 am


Originally Posted by NY-FLA (Post 12063287)
Sounds like clowns at work. :D

I suggest putting those cell phone camera's to work.

Get the evidence of TSA's effectiveness published in every available area possible.

goalie Jul 14, 2009 8:41 am


Originally Posted by DocDorfman (Post 12063194)

Originally Posted by goalie (Post 12063111)
^ :D

and look here for more on the attack of the gate raping blueshirts:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...rrrhhhggg.html

That's the thing - it wasn't a gate search, it was a gate stare-down.

They made no contact with the passengers while they were at the gate, they just made little finger jesters to each other and moved around the perimeter of the folks waiting.

Surveillance like behavior - except obvious as an elephant in the living room.

i've seen that exact behavior as well and it's the pre-cursor to a gate search based on "spot" analysis :rolleyes:. if they don't "see the big catch", the blueshirts stand there and do nothing but wasting their own resources and then move on

DevilDog438 Jul 14, 2009 8:49 am


Originally Posted by DocDorfman (Post 12063194)
That's the thing - it wasn't a gate search, it was a gate stare-down.

They made no contact with the passengers while they were at the gate, they just made little finger jesters to each other and moved around the perimeter of the folks waiting.

Surveillance like behavior - except obvious as an elephant in the living room.

I would have made a few choice finger gestures of my own every time one of them looked directly at me.

Mats Jul 14, 2009 8:53 am

That is SUCH a power trip!

It's like something out of fifth grade: "we're going to come up with secret code signals to talk to each other! Then everyone will be scared of us and respect us!"

whirledtraveler Jul 14, 2009 8:56 am

Do you get a secondary if you smile and them and say "you guys are hilarious!"

Italy98 Jul 14, 2009 9:08 am

And while passengers are backed up waiting to go through security because six TSAs are playing around at a boarding gate . . . :mad: :td: :mad:

coachrowsey Jul 14, 2009 9:22 am

2 TSA Spots on the jetway of my flight out of JFK Su. afternoon. I didn't see them harass anyone just a waste of tax dollars:td:

timezone_trooper Jul 14, 2009 9:59 am

I saw this at ALB yesterday as I deplaned. 2 TSOs were lurking at the podium, and 2 more were on the opposite side of the gate area. One of them even had a 2" 3-ring binder labeled as "TSA ALB PLAYBOOK" - I wonder if it was SSI, and if so, why it was out in plain view to the public.

N965VJ Jul 14, 2009 1:29 pm


Originally Posted by DocDorfman (Post 12062176)
<SNIP> It was sort of a passive gate check - 5 TSA screeners stood in various corners of the gate and watched all the passengers, all the while making little "signals" to each other.

Found on teh interwebz! The source of the TSO hand signals:


http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...7/a49699e2.jpg

FliesWay2Much Jul 14, 2009 2:16 pm

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8830/4.2.2 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)


Originally Posted by coachrowsey
2 TSA Spots on the jetway of my flight out of JFK Su. afternoon. I didn't see them harass anyone just a waste of tax dollars:td:

...as if harassing someone ISN'T a waste of taxpayers' money??? :-)

Boggie Dog Jul 14, 2009 2:20 pm


Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much (Post 12065776)
Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8830/4.2.2 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)



...as if harassing someone ISN'T a waste of taxpayers' money??? :-)

What you get when the inmates are running the asylum.

ND Sol Jul 14, 2009 2:58 pm

I have questions about the legal basis for this type of screening.

We first started out with screening at the checkpoint. All passengers are searched so that the requirements for an administrative search can be met.

Then we had searches at the jetway. They are to be completely random (which in reality doesn't appear to be the case), so that would help meet the administrative search requirements. And, in fact, the TSA set it up to be completely random and not arbitrary to avoid additional legal problems.

But now, we have multiple TSO's hanging around gates for what purpose? To search based on what a person looks like? That doesn't appear to pass the smell test. So what am I missing?

Trollkiller Jul 14, 2009 2:59 pm

Next time call the police and report suspicious individuals relaying covert signals to coordinate some kind of mischief.

If you see something, say something.... isn't that what we are taught.

asnovici Jul 14, 2009 5:01 pm


Originally Posted by Mats (Post 12063829)
That is SUCH a power trip!

It's like something out of fifth grade: "we're going to come up with secret code signals to talk to each other! Then everyone will be scared of us and respect us!"

Their education stopped around fifth grade. Which is why they are doing what they are doing.

Wally Bird Jul 14, 2009 8:27 pm


Originally Posted by ND Sol (Post 12066031)
I have questions about the legal basis for this type of screening.

Don't expect the TSA to answer them. They are not constrained by legal bases; unless you are prepared to sue them. You won't win even then, but what the hell...

paulmcgrath Jul 15, 2009 4:31 pm

I've experienced this twice ex-ORD so far this year. Both times there were 2 TSA personnel just at the gate stopping random passengers and patting them down and searching their baggage.

(Same happens ex-DUB every time)

ND Sol Jul 15, 2009 4:50 pm


Originally Posted by paulmcgrath (Post 12072361)
I've experienced this twice ex-ORD so far this year. Both times there were 2 TSA personnel just at the gate stopping random passengers and patting them down and searching their baggage.

(Same happens ex-DUB every time)

For that particular MO, you can review the gate searches thread.

elektronkind Jul 15, 2009 4:52 pm


Originally Posted by Wally Bird (Post 12067432)
Don't expect the TSA to answer them. They are not constrained by legal bases; unless you are prepared to sue them. You won't win even then, but what the hell...

It makes me wonder how the subjective observation of someone's facial expressions or they way they carry themselves constitutes probable cause for a search of that person.

kcwildguy Jul 15, 2009 5:54 pm


Originally Posted by N965VJ (Post 12065477)
Found on teh interwebz! The source of the TSO hand signals:


http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...7/a49699e2.jpg

I almost peed myself with those. Thanks for sharing! Much more entertaining than watching the TSA guys watching me, watching them, watching me.....

rayraf Jul 15, 2009 6:22 pm


Originally Posted by ND Sol (Post 12066031)
I have questions about the legal basis for this type of screening.

We first started out with screening at the checkpoint. All passengers are searched so that the requirements for an administrative search can be met.

Then we had searches at the jetway. They are to be completely random (which in reality doesn't appear to be the case), so that would help meet the administrative search requirements. And, in fact, the TSA set it up to be completely random and not arbitrary to avoid additional legal problems.

But now, we have multiple TSO's hanging around gates for what purpose? To search based on what a person looks like? That doesn't appear to pass the smell test. So what am I missing?

Ever get stopped at a DUI checkpoint? They rarely catch anyone either but they expend a lot of resources doing so. And they are legal, as long as they are pre-announced.

sethb Jul 15, 2009 7:32 pm


Originally Posted by rayraf (Post 12072881)
Ever get stopped at a DUI checkpoint? They rarely catch anyone either but they expend a lot of resources doing so. And they are legal, as long as they are pre-announced.

They don't have to be pre-announced, they have to stop everybody.

royvb Jul 15, 2009 7:40 pm

Award!
 
This has to win "Best Blog response of he Decade! :p Many Tanks!

Trollkiller Jul 15, 2009 8:05 pm


Originally Posted by sethb (Post 12073183)
They don't have to be pre-announced, they have to stop everybody.

Or they have to stop every x number of cars so that the person stopped is not singled out.

Boggie Dog Jul 15, 2009 8:25 pm


Originally Posted by Trollkiller (Post 12066035)
Next time call the police and report suspicious individuals relaying covert signals to coordinate some kind of mischief.

If you see something, say something.... isn't that what we are taught.


911...

911 Operator: Whats your emergency?

Caller: Yeah, I'm at gate XX here at the airport and I think some terrorist are hanging around the gate.

911 Operator: What kind of terrorist?

Caller: Some really strange creepy guys, I'm really afraid something bad is about to happen. Please send help now!!

911 Operator: OK, I've got people on the way......

Wally Bird Jul 15, 2009 8:32 pm


Originally Posted by elektronkind (Post 12072468)
It makes me wonder how the subjective observation of someone's facial expressions or they way they carry themselves constitutes probable cause for a search of that person.

What ? You don't believe the super-secret spotnik program works ?

Report to the nearest DHS office at once for adjustment, Citizen.

Trollkiller Jul 15, 2009 8:44 pm


Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 12073394)
911...

911 Operator: Whats your emergency?

Caller: Yeah, I'm at gate XX here at the airport and I think some terrorist are hanging around the gate.

911 Operator: What kind of terrorist?

Caller: Some really strange creepy guys, I'm really afraid something bad is about to happen. Please send help now!!

911 Operator: OK, I've got people on the way......

Yep, because if I were a terrorist I would make, buy or steal TSA uniforms and use them as a cover to carry out my dastardly deed. Oh wait that could never happen.

exerda Jul 15, 2009 9:30 pm

You should have walked up to a couple of them and tried to start up a conversation, and try SPOTting them (i.e. "What are you guys doing here? Where do you live? What is your favorite color?") Maybe point at one and laugh hysterically.

I guess they'd try claiming you were "interfering with the screening process" or something equally ridiculous.

MikeMpls Jul 15, 2009 10:40 pm

Pseudo Adults at Play
 

Originally Posted by Mats (Post 12063829)
That is SUCH a power trip!

It's like something out of fifth grade: "we're going to come up with secret code signals to talk to each other! Then everyone will be scared of us and respect us!"

Some friends & I did that in 3rd grade only we used weird noises instead of hand signals.

TSA gets more bizarre by the day.

RadioGirl Jul 15, 2009 10:44 pm


Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 12073394)
911...

911 Operator: Whats your emergency?

Caller: Yeah, I'm at gate XX here at the airport and I think some terrorist are hanging around the gate.

911 Operator: What kind of terrorist?

Caller: Some really strange creepy guys, I'm really afraid something bad is about to happen. Please send help now!!

911 Operator: OK, I've got people on the way......

Don't forget to mention that you know they're working together 'cause they're all dressed the same. ;)

DocDorfman Jul 15, 2009 11:11 pm

To N965VJ - you are the best, that is exactly what they were doing.

The Cell-camera idea is the next step - I watched this time, I am going to take pictures next time. I am simply taking the picture of the sign at the gate announcing the flight.

spartacus Jul 16, 2009 12:22 am


Originally Posted by rayraf (Post 12072881)
Ever get stopped at a DUI checkpoint? They rarely catch anyone either but they expend a lot of resources doing so. And they are legal, as long as they are pre-announced.

They might get a driver that had something to drink but the real goldmine for local law enforcement at these things is the many other citations (and the resulting revenue from 'court costs' and fines) such as no insurance, expired registration, no tags, etc. They do checks in Omaha but it's always in more affluent areas. Why not set one up in South Omaha and turn the illegals over to ICE?

YXU Dude Jul 16, 2009 1:44 am

how about?
 
take a position similar to theirs and then making similar hand signals to theirs.
then ... enlist other passersby to join you in mockingly imitating them in a sort of impromptu vigilante flashmob taunting/outing.

Trollkiller Jul 16, 2009 2:28 am


Originally Posted by YXU Dude (Post 12074372)
take a position similar to theirs and then making similar hand signals to theirs.
then ... enlist other passersby to join you in mockingly imitating them in a sort of impromptu vigilante flashmob taunting/outing.

^x4

n4zhg Jul 16, 2009 4:13 am


Originally Posted by spartacus (Post 12074180)
They might get a driver that had something to drink but the real goldmine for local law enforcement at these things is the many other citations (and the resulting revenue from 'court costs' and fines) such as no insurance, expired registration, no tags, etc. They do checks in Omaha but it's always in more affluent areas. Why not set one up in South Omaha and turn the illegals over to ICE?

That's racist. And besides, they don't have any money.


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