Flushing out terrorists
 

For those who might have missed Friday's latest addition on PV:

http://www.tsa.gov/blog/2009/05/what...k-like_01.html

Interesting there is no mention of how many tewwowists have been flushed since the program started...

And I hope we never do. Catching them is not the job of the TSA, deterring them is.

Co-sign

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8830/4.2.2 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)

This is just begging for a return of Superguy's poster on this subject!

I hate to burst your bubble Ron, but if you think a group w/the resources to pull of '9/11' (TM) is ever going to be deterred by the likes of the TSA & its antics, there is a bridge for sale in Brooklyn you should look at...:rolleyes:

BTW-still waiting for your response to my questions asked previously-what one action, implemented by the TSA & the TSA alone, had it been in place on 9/10, would prevent another '9/11' (TM)?

Once again, Ron, you and your organisation demonstrate how pointless you are. No terrorist has ever been deterred by the TSA. A few amateur terrorist wannabees have been caught, but only due to their own towering incompetence, not because to the proficiency of the TSA or any other "anti-terror" agency.

There aren't that many terrorists out there, Ron. The few dozen that do exist have pretty much been able to hit whatever target they wanted to, with or wilthout the massive waste of taxpayer money being used in a so-far futile attempt to stop them. Tomorrow, like every day, something is going to happen to someone, somewhere (their daughter is going to be killed by an Israeli bomb in Gaza, or their mother is going to be gunned down by a US military checkpoint in Iraq, or their love interest at the Virginia Tech is going to shun them, who knows what it will be) that makes them decide to commit an act of terror. Eventually, they will find the means to do so, and some people will die, just as on that same day, thousands of others will die of old age, suicide, car accidents, lung cancer, malaria, earthquakes, tsunamis, tainted milk or peanut butter, and a 1000 other causes. And for the others that don't die, life will go on. For some that will be showing up for another day of their pointless job at a TSA checkpoint. For others, that will be losing a little more money because they have a dangerous gel or liquid confiscated at a checkpoint. Either way, it will be pretty much irrelevant in the bigger scheme of things. Stop trying to convince yourself your job is important, because it's not -- it's pretty close to totally meaningless.

You need decaf.

I think there is some validity to what you say. True, a highly-trained professional "terrorist" (read that to mean the cold-hearted men in black who work special operations) could find ways to defeat any security program. In my previous life, I conducted what is popularly referred to as Red Team attacks against high-profile targets and always found a hole.

Where your argument is somewhat flawed is the assumption that terrorists are infallible. Even highly-trained professional field operators exhibit poker-like "tells." Argue against this all you want, I'll match my field experience against anyone on this board and prove you and anyone else wrong. The tricky part is sensitizing security personnel to detect these subtle signs and incorporating that into their security screening routines. This is where the advantage falls to the bad guys because humans are creatures of habit. This doesn't make screening pointless. It only raises the point of the challenges officers need to focus on when they screen.

There are other aspects of airport security screening you conveniently overlook: the dumb passenger. No insult intended, but there are people who simply don't think. They pack acids, corrosives, flammables and other dangerous items in their checked luggage which are detected by TSOs on an all-too frequent basis. While not terrorism, these dumb acts certainly pose an equal danger to the safety of aircraft as would an IED.

As for the other incidents, such as the passenger who brings a loaded firearm to the checkpoint (happens on a regular basis) or has some other dangerous prohibited item such as a hunting knife, martial arts weapon, etc., a lot of that can be attributed to either forgetfulness, ignorance or other simple mistakes. Still, the point you overlook is that TSA catches these items on a fairly frequent basis. No, none of them to date have proven to be terrorist-related. But the point you deliberately ignore is whether there is any value added to catching these items at the checkpoint. Don't bother attempting an answer, I fully expect you to fit this into your anti-TSA mantra.

Pointless job? Hardly.

Starbucks has an excellent decaf brand that still retains a lot of flavor. You really ought to try it! ;)

Can we assume that you have data to support your conclusions and can post links to it here? Should we wait for it?

A few dozen. Hmmm, sorry but I will once again ask for some form of support for that belief. Here is what I was able to find with about 2 minutes research:

“How many Muslims support terrorism or the rule of a world Islamist' state? The estimates run from 1 percent (14-20 million) or as high as 50 percent.”
http://www.sullivan-county.com/wcva/list.htm

50% sounds a bit high to me. I’d most likely go with less than 1%. Still, how many Muslims are out there? Then of course you would need to count the IRA, ETA, The Tamil Tigers, All of the members of the white power movement, the KKK (still around after all these years), the PLO, and I could go on. Of them, only the IRA has avoided killing citizens of the USA. They have not always been successful, but they do try.

IOW there Pol, the number could easily end up being in the hundreds of thousands.

“ The calculated use of unlawful violence or threat of unlawful violence to inculcate fear; intended to coerce or to intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological.”

Tomorrow, like every day, something is going to happen to someone, somewhere, but only a few are going to be injured or killed because someone wants to make a political statement, coerce or intimidate governments or societies, because of political, religious, or ideological belief’s.

You mean this one? :D


http://home.comcast.net/~mdtraveler/TSA_revised.jpg

If there were hundreds of thousands, we'd pretty much be finding them everyday. Not necessarily at the airports, but around the world.

Just because people support terrorism or support a world Islamist state doesn't mean that those people would actually do anything to bring it about. While there are nuts out there willing to sacrifice themselves for the cause, the saying "Everyone wants to go heaven but no one wants to die to get there" would apply. While they may support the terrorists, it doesn't mean that the people would be terrorists themselves.

Well, they are being found, around the world, every day. Read the news paper.

Is the number in the hundreds of thousands? I doubt it, but it is most certainly more than a few dozen.

Before the beginning of the modern jihadist movement, most terrorists were not willing to die for their cause, but they certainly were willing to kill for it. Most terrorists are not all that bright, not by modern standards. Which is how they can convince kids, old folks, women, and others to do what they do. Pohl Pot and the Khmer Rouge showed us that

Any, of any stripe, amateur or otherwise, ever been caught by TSA? Cite please?
I think if such a catch had ever happened, TSA would be screaming it from the web-site, press releases, lob-ball congressional hearings, etc. etc. Anything to justify $6B per annum. And, of course, simply deterring them is umeasurable, so the ritual of pouring money down this hole remains safe. :td::mad:

That's the whole point, Ron, there ISN'T any data and there AREN'T any links, because there haven't been any terror attacks that have been stopped by the TSA. I can't link to something that doesn't exist -- if you think it did, then why don't YOU provide us a link to the pages where Kippie and Blogdad Bob are holding one of their many press conferences about their latest foiled attempt at terror?




Wow! In just a few minutes of "research," you found some flaky right wing "muslims are the bogey man" website! Congrats!

Now give me ten minutes, and I'll produce "research" that PROVES that:

• the holocaust never happened
• santa claus is real
• 1 + 1 = 3
• scientology is the answer to everything
• Kip Hawley is not an idiot

Terrorism rarely rises above the level of petty annoyance, and those who are most concerned about it are concerned because they view it as a threat to their monopoly on the use of violence for political purposes.

Ron, my mind is just spinning trying to keep up with your deep and insightful observations. I hadn't realised before that if only terrorists were smarter, they wouldn't be so dangerous.

So you cant provide links that support your belief. I am not surprised, not one bit.

Here are some things to think about:
http://www.fbi.gov/aboutus/transformation/ct.htm
Yes, its an FBI web site, but you will note (I hope) that DHS and FBI work together in many of these programs.
http://www.terrorisminfo.mipt.org/pd...m2002-2005.pdf
A long read, but informative.
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/view/71512
Not quite on topic, but interesting all the same.
http://www.nationalterroralert.com/u...security-news/
More interesting information

And now for something totally on-topic, please read here:
http://www.theaviationnation.com/200...a-flight-1824/

Funny, I can.

I’m sorry you are unwilling to open your mind. Please feel free to hold on to your unreasonable prejudices as long as they make you comfortable. When you are ready, we will be here.